A Month in the Life

Excellent post, got me thinking. Methinks I will blog about it myself.
 

I thought I might add a minor correction to your post (which actually serves to bolster your underlying argument). Urshan Graduate School is actively pursuing accreditation and is on track to be fully accredited (by ATS) in 2009 (2 years ahead of schedule). The irony is that as an accredited school UGST faces the obstacle that only 10% of the student body can have unaccredited degrees. This means that those same students you reference visiting booths of during GC end up having the same conversation you invent for an interview with "accredited" colleges when speaking with UGST. This makes your statement "other than UGST" slightly inaccurate and would probably better read "including UGST" as Urshan Graduate School has taken the initiatives you lay out. Please give "ac-credit-ation" where "a-credit-ation" is due! I might as well add that Gateway College, in part by sharing a campus with UGST, has assembled a reputable faculty and seems to be actively (and successfully) pursuing accreditation for itself. Someone more in the know on that can speak to that.
 

Thanks for the correction, Marjorie. I wasn't aware that UGST was in the process of getting their ATS acreditation. That's a very good theological grad school accrediation service. Fuller Seminary is accredited by them, I believe.

I only mentioned "other than UGST" because they seemed to be a school that would accept graduates from our bible schools. However, it will be interesting to see how the dynamic changes (if it changes) once UGST is fully accredited. Will they still be able to accept students from our bible schools if they remain unaccredited nationally?

Incidentally, Hope International University in Fullerton, CA is another school that's accepted a few of our bible school grads into their graduate programs of late.

I do not doubt the faculty at any of the bible schools. That's why it's so frustrating! Our talent is spread out very thin, when it could be centralized to create a REALLY good undergraduate institution. The UPCI does have some very strong Ph.D.s in its ranks.
 

I heard/read somewhere that the reason why our bible colleges are not accredited is that the colleges "would have to give up their oneness doctrine in favor of a trinitarian viewpoint". If that were truely the case, there would not be Great Lakes University in Auburn Hills, MI, a TRULY accredited Pentecostal institution.
 

I agree with your post in general. You know what's about to follow, right? There is, sometimes, another option. Some graduate schools will accept your degree from unaccredited schools. I went to CLC and was accepted into the Law School at Regent University (An ABA approved law school). As a side note, I passed the DC bar exam on the first attempt unlike Mrs. Clinton (does this make me more qualified to be president?). So it worked out for me. However, what you say is true and if I were planning on doing anything besides full time pulpit ministry I would not attend a unaccredited bible college.
 

There is no reason why a UPCI institution would have to "give up its oneness doctrine in favor of a trinitarian viewpoint" to get accreditation.
 

I'm glad to hear that there are schools who will accept our bible school's unaccredited degrees. Yes, there are some out there. However, there are probably more that will not than schools that will.
 

This post was definitely needed as there seem to be many misconceptions and beliefs about accreditation floating around! 1. Accreditation is a LONG process (many years). UGST started the process when it opened in 2001 (although official start cannot take place until the first class has graduated) and is ahead of time in thinking that full accreditation will occur in 2009. There are several benchmarks and studies along the way--one of which is acquiring Associate status which UGST has done! ATS is the number one accrediting agency for seminaries in the country (check their website). UGST is pursuing FULL accreditation this means that from its inception only 10% of the student body could have unaccredited (read: Bible school) degrees. This has been a major obstacle.
2.) Regent University has famously accepted Bible School degrees for their Masters programs; however, they have also been known to accept folks who have no degrees, so I don't know if they can be the benchmark for other universities 3.) There are plenty of accrediting agencies that do not require a creedal statement (Trinity vs. Oneness); however, this has nothing to do with Great Lakes as they are not accredited at this time (even though I believe they are pursuing it).
For my own personal curiosity: I also want to know why degraffenreed thinks other professions require accredited degrees but "full-time pulpit ministers" would not. Who knew accreditation was such a hot topic?!?!?! l.com
 

(Okay, I'm not going to blog on my own blog)
What about the fact that if someone goes to a UPCI bible college right out of high school, they are at most 21, 22 years old when they graduate? With a 4 year bible school education under their belts, their lives are not over. They can still go to a secular college, and at that time have more mature study skills and time management has been defined.

I never regretted my time at a UPCI bible college. I actually learned that what I have a degree in from Gateway (Church Music) is not what I want a career in, so that was incredibly liberating for me.

Have the opinion you want, but I don't feel uneducated just because Gateway was not accredited.
 

True, someone who goes to a bible school can then go to another 4 year school and get a degree. But that's 8 years to get a BA. Their lives are not over but why spend 8 years getting the education the the bible school purported to give you in 4? 8 years ought to get you a medical degree!!

I'm not saying that you're uneducated if you went to a bible school. Nor am I saying that going to bible school is a waste of time. I want to say this without sounding like a pompous jerk. Please do not be offended. You would have gotten a better education if you had gone elsewhere.

Many of the freshmen I teach don't know how to write at a University level. Many don't have a clue what it means to think critically. Few understand the forces at play in the history of Western Civilization. A great number of them are unfamiliar with the greatest works of English literature. Even more lack the ability to account for their own most basic beliefs. I must admit that I am biased toward a liberal arts type of education. I believe that the ability to do these things is at the core of a good education. You might develop some of the study skills necessary to succeed in life and in academia at a bible school. By virtue of native intelligence you may have entered bible school with these gifts. But, our current bible school system cannot give you a true liberal arts education.
 

Yes, what I heard about accreditation issues makes no sense to me either, especially when there is an Apostolic University called Great Lakes University that IS accredited.

It seems from an outsiders view that the decision to accredit or not to accredit is purely a political one and not one that has rational grounding.
 

just for clarification- Anderson University is actually not a Baptist University- It is affiliated with the Church of God,
 

by way of a little clarification on Great Lakes University (as an occassional adjunct there), sorry stephanie but our blogger is correct, we are not yet accredited. however, we are state certified, which means that we have been approved by the Michigan board of education, and more importantly, that students can receive financial aid toward our university (from the state, student loans, etc). we actually are up to be voted on at the next vote (the board votes twice a year). the reason why it has taken so long to become accredited is because they switched accreditation boards, due to the fact that the first board was having issues with the national board of education, and we wanted to go with a solid board. GLU switched to a new accreditation committee, and are currently awaiting the vote. make sense?? i do agree whole heartedly that we are WAY behind the curve in addressing this issue. education is not only necessary, but a beautiful thing. we should make it as accessible as possible to our students!!
 

This post has been removed by the author.
 

First, let me apologize for what will surely be some less than kind comments. I understand your position in academia, but I feel you've pushed the limits here.

Yes, controversy is definitely your aim. Misinformed controversy. As an instructor at a Bible College I take personally comments made by people we call "academic snobs" who post comments like this without doing their "homework" - shocking.

In response to your numbered points:
1. We DO have a curriculum that will line up with ANY 4-year undergrad program. Don't believe me, look it up.
2. As for closing, not a chance. Ten years worth of work in pursuing accreditation is too much to throw away.
3. I'm shocked at your relocation comments. You of all people should know that St. Louis is a rich cultural city with lots of good reasons to move here.
4. What about the people here who have sweat blood to get us to where we are? Just because you don't know their names doesn't mean they're not a champion.
5. Egos checked at the door - not getting that one.
6. Majors? Again, do your homework.

And finally, we have many students who walked out of this school directly into non-ministry related masters programs. No, UGST is NOT the goal of every student, crazy as that may sound to you. I think you're writing from the viewpoint of the way it's always been. Newsflash - times are a changin'.
 

"You would have gotten a better education if you had gone elsewhere."
Perhaps that depends upon what you consider an education - and what you intend to do with that education. I now have a PhD from a secular university, but I do not regret my year spent at a Bible school. It was time well spent. In fact, I wish I had completed the degree at the Bible school and then attended the secular university.
 

Ok, so I'm not quite sure if the internet popped up some random website over there in LA while you were doing your homework for this blog (you did do research, right...I mean, you presented a ton of "facts"...maybe I'm assuming) but you obviously did not read the correct course catalogue for the Bible College that I attend. Amongst my many theological classes I have also been required (yes, required) to take such courses as College Math, American Government, Social Ethics, Spanish, Western Civilization, etc. Shocking, I know. To think that I'm learning more than Pentecostal rhetoric...

And acreditation...
Well, my academic dean would really go for your jugular, considering the fact that you seem to be discounting the years of work that she has done towards that end.
I'll be honest, I don't know all of the details of our current acreditation endeavors, but I do know that we are actively working (and making huge progress) in that area.

I must say that you didn't make me as angry as I expected to be--you have some decent ideals.

Misinformed? Very much.

Blabbing controversial nonsense? Probably.

Cutting you a bit of slack, I will end by saying that you did mention writing this blog in a "half-awake" state...

Let's just hope that's your excuse...
 

Man...a nice, sorry but you are misinformed is sufficient. I tell you what, some Christians must have never heard "You catch more flies with sugar than with honey..."
 

I merely reciprocated the fervency that was afforded me...
Sorry, you were misinformed.
 

you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar...
 

HAHAHAHAHA! See I was so carried away that I totally typed the wrong words on my quote! Obviously, you would catch more flies with HONEY than with VINEGAR! :) Now, see everyone is smiling!
 

I've not forgotten about this post I've just been busy. I do have responses. Go figure! I promise to be nice.
 

The claim has been made that Bible School has a core cirriculum that would measure up against any secular college in the nation. Here is a comparison. I won't even give my comments.

Gateway:
GENERAL EDUCATION CORE COURSES
CC 102 Communication Skills 3
CS 101 Computer Skills (or test) 3
ED 100 Study Skills 1
EN 101 English Composition 3
EN 102 Critical Thinking and Writing 3
HI 102 Western Civilization 3
HI 302 Modern Pentecostal Movements 3
MA102 Contemporary College Math 3
MU141 Music Appreciation 3
PH 102 Christian Worldview 3
PS 102 General Psychology 3
SC 102 Physical Science 4
SO 201 Social Ethics 3
SO 301 Marriage and Family 3
Free Elective 1

Secular College:
American Cultures 1 course
Select either one lower division AMCS course or one upper division AMCS course, depending on class standing.
Lower division AMCS courses are restricted to Freshmen and Sophomores
Upper division AMCS courses are restricted to Juniors and Seniors
College Writing 1 course
ENGL 110 College Writing (minimum grade of C required)
Communications/Critical Thinking 1 course
CMST 100 Introduction to Public Speaking CMST 140 Business & Professional Communication
CMST 110 Interpersonal Communication CMST 206 Critical Thinking & Communication
CMST 130 Argumentation & Debate PHIL 220 Critical Thinking
Critical Arts 1 course
ANIM 100 History of Animation MUSC 102 Enjoyment of Music
ARHS 200 Art of the Western World I MUSC 104 Fundamentals of Music
ARHS 201 Art of the Western World II MUSC 303 World Music Cultures I
ARHS 202 Modernism MUSC 365 History of Jazz
ARHS 321 Arts of Asia: Zen THEA 240 Western Theater History & Literature I
ARHS 340 History of Photography THEA 245 Western Theater History & Literature II
ARHS 345 Contemporary Art Criticism THEA 331 Classical Spirit in Drama
DANC 281 History of Dance Theater THEA 336 Romantic Spirit in Drama
DANC 381 To Dance is Human THEA 341 Realistic Spirit in Drama
FTVS 210 Art of the Cinema THEA 346 Avant Garde Spirit in Drama
FTVS 314 History of European Film THEA 347 African Spirit in Drama
FTVS 315 History of the Documentary THEA 348 Asian Spirit in Drama
INDA 100 Civilization and the Arts THEA 349 Hispanic Spirit in Drama
THEA 430 Special Author/Genre Seminar
Creative Arts 1 course
ANIM 120 Animation Workshop I ENGL 205 Creative Writing for Non-Majors
ART 150 Studio Arts for Non-majors ENGL 311 Writing Workshop in Fiction: Intermediate
ART 151 Introduction to Drawing & Print Making ENGL 312 Writing Workshop in Poetry: Intermediate
ART 153 Drawing I MUSC 105 The Vocal Experience
ART 250 Visual Arts for Elem. Educator MUSC 106 The Guitar Experience
ART 278 Ceramics I MUSC 107 The Piano Experience
ART 280 Photography I SCWR 220 Beginning Film & Television Writing
ART 350 Visual Thinking THEA 110 Beginning Acting
DANC 163 Introduction to Choreography THEA 400 Playwriting

History 2 courses
Choose one from Western Civilization: Choose a second from Contemporary Societies:
HIST 100 Foundations of Western Civilization HIST 152 Modern Middle East
HIST 101 Western Traditions HIST 162 Contemporary America
HIST 172 Modern Latin America
Liberal Studies majors see program advisor HIST 182 Modern Asia
HIST 192 Contemporary Africa
Literature 1 course
CLCV 200 Classical Epic THEA 331 Classical Spirit in Drama
CLCV 210 Ancient Tragedy THEA 336 Romantic Spirit in Drama
CLCV 220 Ancient Comedy THEA 341 Realistic Spirit in Drama
CLCV 230 Ancient Historians THEA 346 Avant Garde Spirit in Drama
ENGL 130 Introduction to Poetry THEA 347 African Spirit in Drama
ENGL 140 Introduction to Fiction THEA 348 Asian Spirit in Drama
ENGL 150 Introduction to Drama THEA 349 Hispanic Spirit in Drama
ENGL 170 Classics of Literature
FNLT 180 World Literature THEA 430 Special Author/Genre Seminar
THEA 240 Western Theatre History & Lit. I Any upper division literature course in
a modern or classical language
THEA 245 Western Theatre History & Lit. II
Mathematics 1 course
MATH 102, with the following exceptions:
ECON majors - based on math placement exam, take MATH 101, MATH 111, MATH 112, MATH 120 or MATH 131
LBST majors - based on math placement exam, take MATH 101 or MATH 106
PSYC majors - take MATH 104 (placement exam is not required)
Note: Courses numbered 102 or higher will fulfill core
Philosophy 2 courses
Lower division requirement: Upper division requirement:
(requires junior or senior standing)
PHIL 160 Philosophy of Human Nature One PHIL course numbered 320 through 330

Science & Technology 1 course
Courses numbered 260-279 in each department within the College of Science & Engineering (BIOL, CHEM, CMSI, ELEC, MECH, NTLS, PHYS)
are designed for non-science majors.

Any other lower division course of 3 units or more offered by the College will satisfy the requirement.

Social Sciences 2 courses
Take one or two courses from the following: Students may not select courses in the department of their major.
ECON 100 Economic Literacy POLS 135 Contemporary American Politics
ECON 110 Introductory Microeconomics POLS 155 Comparative Foreign Governments
ECON 120 Introductory Macroeconomics PSYC 100 General Psychology
GEOG 100 Human Geography SOCL 100 Principles of Sociology
SOCL 105 Social Anthropology
Note: If two courses are taken in the same department, the second course must be upper division
The second course may also be chosen from:
AFAM 115 Introduction to African American Studies
APAM 117 Introduction to Asian Pacific American Studies
CHST 116 Introduction to Chicano Studies
WNST 100 Introduction to Women's Studies
Theological Studies 2 courses
One 100 level THST course One 300 level THST course
(requires Junior or Senior standing)

The mere absence of a literature course is enough to make me question the claim. You decide for yourself.
 

I think you are mistaking quantity for quality.

It is as if you are saying that the more courses a university/college offers the more qualified they are.

Fewer choices does not equate better, it just means fewer.

Not an accurate comparison, just a snobbish one.
 

Gateway College Course Catalogue 2006-2007:

EN 201 World Literature