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This is an absolute shame. I think these ministers have lost sight as to what's really important and forming a new organization isn't going to help spread the gospel to anyone! The UPC is not without it's fair share of problems, but like minded organizations such as UPC, ALJC and independents should be coming together to collaborate and spread the message of God's love and salvation plan to everyone instead of this petty in fighting and clique forming. Very childish and very disturbing.

While I personally don't agree with the ministers of the WPF splitting off like that, at least they do have the organization part down.

The only thing that disturbed me is that the doctrine page is "Coming soon." Shouldn't the Apostolic doctrine already be established before we start electing chairpersons? Just my opinion. Thanks for linking to their page.

I hate that this all had to happen, but I've been expecting it for a while.

Really, there are some great people in UPCI, and all other organizations for that matter. Although the means by which we had to leave the organization wasn't good, I'm glad we are out now.

It is my understanding that the ministers whose names are on the council of the WPF did not have to leave or split from the UPCI to join. I was curious because I saw a couple of well-known pastors from my neck of the woods as council members.

It was explained to me that the WPF is a "fellowship" open to all A/P organizations and that it doesn't require one to leave another organization to join.

Anyway, my personal opinion can be summed up like this: "United we stand, divided we fall."

This should not be viewed as a division of the body of Christ - only a division of views - something the body of Christ has always had. While I am not saying it is desireable, this need not be ugly at all. God is in control and His will be done. I firmly believe God can be glorified in this, and will use it to further His Gospel.

Steve H

It does feel like division to me when a group of people who participated in a fair election, but didn't get their way, decides to take their toys and go home. I'm seeing this happen firsthand in a church in my district. It is painful, and it's not even my church!

I realize that the UPCI is not the end all and be all of the body of Christ. But I strongly believe that the division that is sown in a group of ministers leaving, or in a local church split, has a much greater spiritual effect on the people than whatever organization the pastor/minister pays his/her dues to.

Sure, I wish they hadn't have left, but it is arguable that the UPC did this to itself. There were other ways to go about facilitating one's need to utilize a venue we will be too incompetent to master for 20 years anyway, without having to polarize those that disagreed with it.

It's a catch-22 to me. And here's where I predict it goes from here. When the final tally is taken, there's going to be a HUGE monetary hole left in the UPC. Know what that means? ANYBODY that can keep the word "trinity" off their core beliefs tracts will be let in to stop the hemorrhaging.

The more conservative churches and young people at the youth conventions WERE the standard-bearers. It is when we eschew worldly things that we become enriched—not when we lower standards in every corner of our lives.

I have seven and six-year-old girls, who are not yet plugged into the district youth organization. My own church may remain UPC, but I will certainly send my children to the youth conventions these folks will set up. Why? Because I don’t want my children to go to hell. And I’m sick of watching the mad rush to go there.

-R

What is incredibly interesting is that they have already structured their organization and board members, but have never even had a conference, let alone an election!

Is this the preferred organization? One where the head leadership makes all the decisions, even appointments, and the "constituency" are voiceless?

This smacks of the long-held view of many in the top tier of this "new organization" where everything is controlled with an iron hand.

Hmmmm...

I'm sure it will live long, but it's not something I'd want to be involved in.

Seems to me that a lot of the comments about whether these ministers leaving (or not leaving) centers around the organization more than the mission.

If these ministers have heart-felt convictions over such things as television, why should they be tarred and feathered for pulling out of (or at least vocally disapproving of) the actions taken by the "organization" that they are associated with?

For anyone to throw stones and hurl accusations over the convictions of men who have been called of God to lead us is more disgusting and appalling than the actions they're taking.

Why you may or may not agree with them, give them credit for defending their core beliefs. It's something that we see less and less of now days. Perhaps, that's the point their trying to make. Instead of "tolerating" situations you don't like, do something about them. Get off the fence, take a stand, but love God and each other while you do it.

I think Liz said it best. They did not get their way so they are taking their toys and going somewhere else to play. Every member of the WPF executive council has had political loss. Wilson lost Cali supt. by 4 votes, Godair barely lost N.C., the other Godair barely lost assist. gen. supt., Coon barely lost supt. of LA, Odom had back luck and Booker was shamed by his own letter he circulated in Cali and, in turn, received many rebuttals. It does seem as if they are all sore losers and wounded egos joining hands to form their own place of position. They already appointed their councils because all they want from their followers is their money and not their voice. I am sorely disappointed and have lost respect for many of these men. The saddest part is how many people are being disillusioned with their leadership and have now walked away from the church they supported for so many years. These position seeking men are leaving alot of wounded people in the wake.

Anthony W

Is it only about television? What about jewelry(of any kind),make-up,organized sports,facial hair on men,immodest dress(es) all of which can be found in the UPCI manual, yet it seems to be overlooked by many. I was raised in this organization and have seen it change vastly in a short amount of time. What happened?

I just wish those involved would read "A Tale of Three Kings" by Gene Edwards. It's a spectacular, short study of brokenness and rebellion by using David, Saul & Absalom as examples. Seems to be many parallels with our current situation - for instance, why do those "Godly leaders" who wish to divide (a church, ministry, organization) always want to take those within that church/ministry/ organization instead of start from scratch elsewhere? If it's from God, he will bless them elsewhere . . .

Hey, Anonymous!

The UPCI is NOT against jewelry of any kind -- only excessive, ornamental jewelry

The UPCI is NOT against organized sports -- only WORLDY sports.

The UPCI has NEVER made a statement concerning facial hair on men (or on women, for that matter).

It also says NOTHING about immodest DRESSES... only about immodesty.

By the way, even though you didn't mention it, the articles of faith also say NOTHING about women wearing pants.

Just thought you'd like to know -- check out the actual articles of faith. You'll see what I mean.

The upci is not God, its just an organization. A tool, nothing more. If a minister does not agree with its direction it makes since to leave. How can two walk together accept they agree? If the upc is your hope you need some spiritual help. If you like stay but God is not returning for the upc, he's coming for those who have followed him not an ORG.

I can't beleieve that this is happening! Because of the CHOUICE as to wreather or not a local UPC minster may or may not us TV as a mode to advertise there church.
If UPCI would have done this back in the early years of TV. I wonder what kind of inpact it would have had up on our world to day.
The chance to tell the WORLD the "TRUTH". Yet they didn't and today we have what we have...A world that could have know "TRUTH" but UPC and others feared that it would bing them in to worldlyness!
Well now we see again. That finaly Truth may have a chance of changing the world over the TV. But no! You've got those that are to godly to be seen on TV. Yet they sit in there homes or office and pull up anything on the web.
SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!
When you stand before God, and He ask why you didn't use "whatever means possible", to tell the world about the truth. What will you say!
You chose to keep your light under the bush instead of sharing it with the world.
Bro. you need to repent! Ask forgiveness of one another and unite togethere as ONE.
Just think if you all would have taken just one day to have a service over the world using TV. How many untold thousands would have know the "TRUTH".
But maybe that's not the problem!
Maybe your not convinced that you truly have "TRUTH" for if you do, and you didn't use whatever means possible. How will you beable to stand before God and hear him say "Well done thou good and faithful servent"
You were given a tallent and did nothing with it!

I am a fourth generation Pentecostal lady who has attended UPC churches in four states over a span of 55 years. There are many Apostolic ministers in my family on both sides of this fence.

There are apparently those who feel that everyone connected with the UPC is going to hell because there are some churches whose collective holiness standards do not identically match their personal holiness standards. There is also a radical faction that feels as though the UPC is too strict.

I am personally adamantly against television and do not intend to embrace it no matter what anyone does.

However, if those who are spewing venom and showing bad spirits on both sides do not repent, I fear they will lose out with God.

Missionaries will suffer and our witness to others will be hurt by this division.

Our goal and focus should be to be saved and to take someone with us. I pray that God calls us all to true repentance and gives us a desire to please him above all else.

I found the website rather childish. You can tell that it is an organization with foundation of Anger and it has a holy-er than thou tone, especially directed toward the TV issue.
Another thing I've noticed is that the Starrs, err... I mean the ministers from my area that have left are extremely judgemental and holy-er than thou. I say that the UPCI will be better of without the extremely conservative and are now making a huge step in the right direction. Let's remember that salvation is more important than appearance and regulation. I vote to keep this trend moving and to release the UPCI from it's judgemental bond.

Ruth - You have encapsulated the very grace and dignity that should be shown from everyone on either side of the issue. Thank you for your thoughts!

Like you, I feel that regardless of whether or not you agree with either the resolution passing or the new organization forming, our spirit and attitude toward each other are the very crucial.

Taking harsh, hostile stances and voicing such vicious sentiments does nothing more than deepen the wound and makes things harder to overcome.

Instead of having such a hard spirit about the way things are going, why don't you pray that God's ultimate will would be done and that your spirit will remain sensitive to Him and to the real objective of the church...reaching the lost. I know that that's what I'll be praying for myself.

No one wants to see this happen, but if it does, our viciousness towards one another will do nothing more than give the lost reason to doubt our sincerity when we teach and preach brotherly love, forgiveness, and peace.

Brethren (?) at the WPF present themselves as a fellowship yet they never actually fellowshipped. The chairman for AD 2009 is already appointed!? I think all this is about arrogance and pride and the fact that in today’s world pastors have way more authority then they need. Most of pastors hardly ever speak to the mortals they pastor and because their idleness (most are overweight) they got nothing else to do but to look for a new face to play golf with. I love UPCI and would stick with it until it would take its last breath, its called loyalty. People love many things I love my denomination and that’s all that’s to it.
Overseas I see many preachers who come from the States and claim that they are independent, they want to work with everyone, they do not condemn people with different opinions etc, etc. After a few years they show their real faces and they push their denominational goals/visions, they don’t let anyone whose different preach in their churches, they breath fire and brimstone on people who disagree with them. At the end they show who they truly are and it happens again and again. I have already seen the face of the UPCI, but the true face of the WPF is yet to be seen. Someone said that something good will come out of this, well how about you get hit by a speeding train and losing all of your limbs, but get to witness to your doctor, who never gives his life to God? Do you call that “something good”? Well, you can have it.

You know this reminds me of jealousy. Brother Haney wants everyone to love the UPC ONLY! Anyone who loves the Brethren forming the WPF are openly ridiculed, mocked, put into categories of the ungodly, all to lead those they can influence to love only the UPC.

Well, the WPF has not been officially formed yet so how can we say we love it already more then the UPC? Really we cannot! But we are insulted by the nine letters circulating around the world from UPC ministers that we must hate the men forming the WPF and also hate the WPF as an alternative choice in Apostolic direction.

Anyone who cannot see the liberalism, the ecumenicalism, and the fall away from holiness standards in the UPC as a whole is blind. Some good Pastors are holding on. God bless them. But the majority of the rank and file are now allowing all sorts of worldliness. Where is the vision of the church without spot, blemish, wrinkle, or any such thing? Where is the vision of perfection for the body of Christ as we enter the endtimes? Where are the good and honest souls willing to "come out of her" and not be partakers of the sins of the whore system and her daughters? At one time the UPC was leading the way in separation and holiness. But no longer can we see or believe this. So, an alternative is needed and maybe the WPF is the answer. Maybe it is not. But stop the letters please. Stop being accusers of the Brethren because they seek a different preferred direction.

Jesus guide your Church, speak to your sons and daughters. We desire your way and not our own. We desire your holiness and not our unrighteousness. Forgive us of our sins and justify us with the power of the Holy Ghost within us.

Pastor G. Reckart
Tampa, Florida
Not affiliated with the UPC or WPF

This is heart wrenching. I really doubt God is in approval of either side. I have talked with ministers on both sides, and they both were under the impression that 'their' particular group was trying to do the right thing and would not be alienating anyone.

They are both wrong.

This is a tatic of the devil to divide the body in the endtime when we should be making every effort to come together rather than seperate. It is idiotic to think one group is better than the other because in any group there are going to be some who will abide by the standards, and some who will follow their own way.

Why was there not prayer about this decision before they made the vote that broke the camel's back. Let's be real people.

Regardless of what your pastor says, most of you have a TV in your home, whether you claim to be for or against it. And even if you do not have a TV I am sure you have the internet, or you wouldn't be reading this post.

I wonder who has the guts to admit they have strayed online to view things they shouldn't have? Even accidentally? If you say you haven't you are lying.

With all the emails we get on a daily basis, there are many temptations presented before our eyes and yet we profess ourselves to be above it all... right, and really Jesus was an alien being from another planet, and he appears in flying saucers all the time.

It is time we wake up and get our lives where they need to be and quit judging our brothers and sisters because of their mis-steps. The Bible says for He without sin to cast the first stone, and yet most of us, not knowing what is really going on are quick to judge each other, rather than step back and wait on the truth.

We hold ourselves in such high esteem, that WE have become the pharisees we have called others to be. Sin is sin and if we do not get off our self indulgent attitudes and self righteous worship, we will be sorely mistaken the day God calls us home.

This idea that we have the message and all others are lost is moronic. If we truly had the truth, then we should also have the compassion to try and lift our brother or sister, no matter the name they tag on the door.

I will say in the fear of God, that if we do not turn our eyes off our brother, and put them back on Jesus where they belong, and forgive them, and worship the only one who matters, then the UPCI is done.

United we stand, divided we fall, was the tagline of the early United States, and yet, we think we can stand in high esteem and disregard souls while we castrate our brothers for their wanting to be different? How dare you!

All men are liars. (Bible said it, not me.)

I will stand again in the fear of God and tell this organization that if they do not fall on their faces before God and repent of their own doings, the God will surely hold them accountable. I would not want to be in that position.

This idiotic idea that God 'needs us' to achieve glory has got to be done away with, or we will be the ones looking up from hell, wanting just a drop of water.

Pray thru!

Please allow me to redirect everyone's attention to the fact that we are talking about the Kindgom of God and His heritage--His people. We cannot afford to lose sight of the fact that we are building His kingdom and fulfilling the Great Commission. When we address a follow brother or sister, we must remember that they, too, are the temple of the Holy Ghost--and don't even try that "who is my brother?" garbage. There is a world watching us, the very people we are trying to reach are going to measure their desire to be like us by the way we treat one another. I am in the process of sorting out why our leaders in the UPCI did what they did and why the WPF has taken their stance. When I feel I am better informed, I will make a decision as to where I and my family will attend. It may not be either group. But, I do hope that every apostolic organization has great success is building His kingdom on His principles rathar than building their own.

When Bro. Haney seen the 50 -50 split of those for and against T.V. Advertising he could have stopped it right there. It could have been tabled seeing it caused so much division, but NO! He said "Let it go". He is the one that cause this. My pastor went to the meeting in Tulsa to just check things out. It was all positives. He said it is the first time in 15 years that he has heard righteousness & Holiness preached at a conference level the way it was preached there. As of right now we are going to wait and see what comes of all of it. We may go, we may not. If we as a body of believers allow the world to creep into our homes & put his foot in our doors, it just a matter of time till it moves in. I pray that the UPC as a whole would seek God on their faces in repentance and allow the Holy Ghost to show them the error of their ways and this T.V. advertising comes to not for if it does not other things will be welcomed into lives of great men & women of God. We must build altars and break up our fallow ground so that seeds of righteousness and holiness can bring forth the precious fruit to reach the lost souls in this world. Whatever entertains instructs. Please be vigilant and press forward unto holiness and allow not the temptation of the world to enter in. My fellowlabors we can win this world if we have the desire & passion to do so. T.V. is not the answer. Preaching & teaching is the answer to this lost and dieing world. We can do it without worldly influence Bro & Sis’s.
“If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” John 15:19

I think the UPC is about 30 years too late for TV. If they were going to use TV as an outreach, they should have done so a long time ago, before the so called "televangelists" of the 80's (and today) ruined the public's perception of Christianity. I'm afraid that non-religious people will simply lump the UPC in the same pot with the rest of the religious garbage on TV these days. It's a shame that the television airwaves have been dominated by false preachers begging for money, & that they have done so in the name of Christ. In my opinion, these TV preachers like Robert Tilton, Don Stewart, Peter Popoff, etc., etc., etc., are atheists in the first place, because no one who actually believes in God could do the things these guys do & feel justified. Had the UPC stepped up & led the way 30 years ago, & set the standard on TV, perhaps people would have a different opinion of religion & Christianity today. They had the best preaching, singing, & overall talent, hands down. Instead, the UPC has preached against technology instead of content for all these years, while false preachers have made a mockery & joke of Christianity. I think the UPC is simply too late. The world isn't going to necessarily distinguish the UPC from other religious groups. I'm not saying, however, that the UPC is wrong for using TV as an outreach, but consider this; if you were mining for diamonds or gold, it would be just as important to know what the fake looks like, because this simply makes the real thing stand out all the more once you find it. Not being on TV always made the UPC stand out in my opinion - it made them shine. However, perhaps the world will "feel" a difference when they see the UPC on TV. As for the WPF, it's interesting to note that Johnny Godair preached for years & years how every split was of the devil, yet is at the head of this split. The United Pentecostal Church needs to be just that - united. I hate to see this division that Satan is causing.

I've always been a strong believer in the Word of God, and from there we have a very strong warning.

Rom 16:17
7 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
KJV

Just a few short hours ago I remarked to a UPCI pastor that I wished those leaving the UPCI well, but after reviewing their articles of faith I must in good conscience retract that statement.

It grieves me to no end to have to "mark" these brethern, but the Word is very plain in this matter.

It should be putting us all to our knees.

I looked at the WPF web site and think that they have the organized part down to the enth degree.

What I find most telling is the location of the Ministers and Families meeting, Branson, MO. One of the leading places of entertainment in the Midwest. It kind of reveals the true interest of the people involved.

To think that this organization (WPF) was started as a result of a vote on the use of TV would be not very plausable. It may have been a catalyst but not the impetus of the forming of this other organization.

It is pretty clear that there was a lot of prior preparation done before the actual roll out. This could not have been a reaction to a single event that occured just recently. They must have prepared and anticipated the outcome of the TV vote. Who knows, they may have voted in favor of TV so they could use it as an excuse to form in the name of "HOLINESS".

To me it is more of the same. Power hungry pentecostal preachers that crave the preeminence of the group. When there are only so many seats at the top the best way to create more seats is to form another organization so you can be at the top. It is, and has been for some time, about the BIG I and the little you.

The Gospel and Truth have long been relegated in the orginizations of the UPCI, UPF, AOG, WPF and many others. It is only brought to the fore when convenient to further the agendas of the ones doing the manuvering.

More Carnality robed in the name of God or some other high idea. I am just thankful that the Lord is my shepherd and that the Holy Spirit leads and guides into truth and rightousness. When I walk in the Spirit and live in the Spirit I live in a way that pleases My Lord Jesus Christ. I hope more people wake up to just how far these churches have strayed from what God had intended with the salvation plan. Fellowship with HIM now and forever. Not this other back biting, twisting, turning, crafty, carnal type of fellowship that will pass with the end of time.

I posted anonynous because I do not know you and you do not know me. It makes no difference what my name is or where I live.

The argument has been over television advertisement. Everyone seemed content to advertise on the internet. Now that we're allowed to advertise on TV, there's a problem?
Here's the issue as I see it: The Internet will eventually become the delivery and retrieval device of all information, all forms of media, all forms of communication, and all electronic devices (both hard wired and wireless). One can argue how it will happen or when it will happen, but it will happen. TV and Internet will become one entity. When that happens, I'm just curious, what will these brethren do, get rid of technology and live like the Amish? Maybe that's the best way anyhow. Life would be much simpler, don't you think?

Actually, "these brethren" know that there are too many media forms out there to preach against them all. And they agree that it is a matter of personal conviction, not command and control.

I have heard repeatedly from those that have fractured off that TV is not really the issue. They all know that people who wanted to watch TV did so, with or without a resolution. And they are just as aware that technology being what it is today, a cell phone, a computer, an IPOD, or whatever, can all send the same videographic images that they are opposed to, as a TV can. So this is not about TV, not really.

I live for God, not for people, not for an organization, and not for any bylaw, standard, or resolution. I love the UPC. I prayed through in the UPC. My church left the UPC, but I believe we will see a day of reuniting of the factions. There were factions when the UPC was created, that were brought together for common good. They didn't all believe exactly the same, but all wanted to win souls. Many, many people on all sides of this that want a reuniting. Lets work toward that end.

UPCI members pride themselves with the fact they are filled with the Holy Ghost. Here we see leaders within this organization that are at odds over something that has cause some major discord within the ranks. Where is the Holy Ghost in all this? What does this really say about the doctrine of the UPCI?

I am a Youth Director for my church and I teach our young people everything my elders taught me whether it be salvation or holiness, I would concider myself conservitive, and for all the great men of God that left the UPCI, men like bro Booker, bro Young and bro Frost God bless them I truly know without a doubt that God is moving in the WWPF just as he is in the UPCI. Now that being said I also believe we do not need Independence! We need Dependence! There are no sections in heaven! there is only one section in heaven and it is the section of the people of Jesus name! So lets win some souls because thats what this is all about!!!!!!!!!!