Collideoscope

A hundred times thank you for posting this.

Wow. Thank you for posting this. I'm glad to see direct, forthright communication coming from a man of God whom I respect. -Melissa F

I appreciate the transparency coming from UPCI leadership. I am cautious, however, when I read statements that discourage "brethren from going to the Tulsa event. No good would come from their going - only that they would be used." I sense leadership fears that other brethern could be persuaded to join the opposing point of view. Have we heard the full arguments for or against the resolution? Let all make their own decisions after listening to all views.

the devil is extremely subtle in his approach in wrecking havoc in the church. The UPCI's decision to allow TV to be used as advertising tool to spread the gospel is going to lead the UCPI into worlidiness like we never would have imagined upc members will then begin to justify why TV isn't as bad as advertised. Just because a few godly men decided to make a stand for what's right and holy doesn't make them hungry for power or position. UPCI is headed in the wrong direction with the passing of this new resolution ,futhermore why should voting on a issue such as TV be voted on every year if this was something that the UPCI stood against firmly why all of sudden the change. The men standing firm against the TV issue are the ones that 'll be blessed by God.

My pastor is a Presbyter, and we are in the newly splintered Western District. My pastor and I have talked extensively about this, and I have come to some conclusions. The main one that I will share here has to do with misplaced focus.

My city has 50,000 people in it. The vast majority are not saved. Most UPC churches would not be able to claim even half of their cities for God. Shouldn't our attention, resources, and energy be spent on trying to win our local cities, rather than worrying about whether or not our brother in a nearby city has a TV or not? Even with the UPC in general, wouldn't we be better served to worry about our local unsaved city, rather than worry about some trivial thing like conservatism vs. liberalism? Aren't we all on the same side here? Don't we all believe you need the Holy Ghost to be saved? Jesus-name baptism?

Officially, I am against this group splitting off for unity's sake, but it will not affect my church, nor our intentions to win our city. I suggest a similar mindset will serve us all, and the Kingdom, well.

To the person who believes the new leadership that stands against TV will be the blessed ones of God....TV is on the way to being obsolete. You can watch the content of TV on the internet, even your cell phone! One can see/read/engage in ANYTHING on the internet. Ministers are falling to pornography everyday. So, why not preach against these technologies, as well? Truly, these are issues of the heart. You CANNOT legislate righteousness! Either a person wants to live holy before God, or doesn't. After all, isn't that what we have the Holy Ghost for - to lead and guide us? If we trust in man to tell us the "do's and don't's", what will we do when our pastor is not there? Men are fallible - it's the Bible that stands forever, and will be what takes us to Heaven. While leadership certainly has their place, we will stand before GOD, and God alone. And He's the one that shed his blood for our sins. We MUST study how Jesus lived in order to live a Christ-like life. Are we exhibiting the Fruits of the Spirit? Do we have LOVE that the world will be attracted to? If we do ALL these things, and have not love, we're nothing. Scripture says "they will know we're Christians by our love one to another." This is what attracts souls to the Kingdom of God. I fear this division is sending a terrible message to souls that desparately need saving.

Here's some fodder for thought for the UPCI, the Pentecostal Worldwide Fellowship, and anonymous posters:

UPCI: There should be no surprise that some would depart from the fellowship after years of discussion, surveys, and grass root arguments for or against resolution 4 (and it isn't just about tv). The decision was made and the UPCI should move forward. Present a positive focus for those staying, along with a kind diplomatic word to those who think they should leave, and stop the "generals" from sending out a deluge of letters in a "strong arm" effort to stop interest in Tulsa because it is only revealing your hand. You thought a few independent minded folk, or ultra-conservatives might go, but now your realizing there is a group of alienated, moderate to conservative crowd wanting to "map a preferred Apostolic direction," who have traditionally had a big influence in the UPCI. The cost might have been a little more than expected, thus the heightened damage control. Move forward with your ability to advertise and set up a scenario utilizing Media Missions to present a united front to impact the world. Focus on holiness and separation issues in a right attitude that collects further support and alleviates fears. And do your thing...and yes, you do have history behind you.

Tulsa: Keep quiet and certainly don't start counter letter writing. Don't try to build something that is anti-upci. We've seen the train wrecks that have occurred when a group defines themselves by simply being "anti" and not "for" anything. Don't send out names on your mailer until you've done your homework. Actually, you shouldn't have put all those names on your flyer in the first place. Present your scheduled topics, present your desired developments, rather than hoping for an early “perceived validation” strike that backfires. However, you might be okay because of all the "generals" sending out letters. Don't start something just because of Res. 4, develop a mission, craft a creative world mission template, focus on youth, and whatever else you feel creatively separates you from what you might feel is becoming too denominational. Have a kind diplomatic word to say about your years spent in the UPCI and do your thing, and no, you have no history behind you...so you had better manage your vision casting or you will end up with another vision on the "scrap" pile.

Lastly, for all you who post anonymously...your validity drops right through the floor. Are you that afraid of standing by your post, that you use a screen name or an anon tag? Here are people (from BOTH ends of the spectrum) talking of resolutions, tv, internet, technology, fellowships, the blessings of God, etc., all the while falling into the trap of hiding behind the cloak of anonymity. Unbelievable.
Adios,
Kevin Bradford

P.S. I read a book entitled “Pentecostalism” that noted in every Pentecostal “vehicle” there is a break off every 20 years. Seems negative, yet it is also the very reason for rapid expansion worldwide. If someone wants to be an entrepreneur along with all the risks, then so be it. Have a good attitude. If someone wants to stay in the UPCI and further support the present vehicle, then so be it. Have a good attitude. Do your best to impact your world with the right motives: not fear, not intimidation, not control, not monetarily based, not “I’ll show you,” but with what you feel best spreads the gospel in humility.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jer 17:9

I think there is more self deception occuring on both sides of this issue than is understood or recognized. When Paul and Barnabas went their separate ways did God only bless one of them?

Further, when man tries to fulfill scripture it is usually disregarded by God. There were 14 chosen Apostles by my count. 1 committed suicide, 1 was chosen by Peter and the group and 1 was knocked down by a light from heaven. I only can find 12 foundations on whose names are the 12 Apostles in the picture of Bride of Christ in Rev. Who are the twelve God alone recognizes?

Come down from your thrones people. Your nothing but dust to be used as God desires.

Division: The act of dividing or separating into parts; also, the state of being divided. Someone or something that keeps individuals or object divided. Disunion, discord, variance and difference act in concert with division.

Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ: I hate to see the devil abuse our Apostolic brethren. I love this Apostolic truth and the people are being manipulated and misrepresented by the devil. It’s insignificant why the UPC is divided; and it’s not justifiable or spiritually legitimate. We should solely embrace the scriptures for our answer in this matter, because the word of God is clear. Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 1Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1Corinthians 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. The resolution in question is not the whole issue. The UPC have been divided for a long time over other deafening issues that I care not to mention at this time; however, when you drag nepotism, politics and culture in the house of God, this is the outcome (a house divided can’t stand). Regardless of the outcome, the false prophets (trinitarian) are sitting back laughing at us devour each another. The scripture expressly states, “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.” Furthermore, it doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong, we’ve completely lost our focus on the task we were put here to do, and that’s win souls for Christ, also edify and build on the Kingdom of God. In this new movement, there will be life long friends lost behind a few self-will men who haven’t sought The Lord for an answer. People might choose to be divided; however, God’s word will never be divided. Finally, the P.A.W. (Pentecostal Assemblies of the World) just had a big break up over “once saved-always saved” and “exclusive preaching at the conventions,” which is false teaching, and wrong (bad fellowship); there were over 30,000 people which decided to leave the organization. We must firmly stand on this Apostolic truth, and don’t give in to the wiles of the devil.

Maurice

I agree with some of the comments. Just because a resolution was passed giving pastors permission to advertise on tv DOES NOT mean "it's ok for everyone to go watch tv!" I also live in a big group of cities, and if advertising on tv means reaching thousands of more souls, then isn't that what is important? I think saints as a whole forget the reason why we are even here on this earth. it is not about who is more conservative or "holy". we are not here to nit pick about the evils of tv (if a man has a certain spirit in his heart and his pastor tells him tv is evil, he WILL find it else where. eg:internet, magazines etc.) Let's not forget "Our mission is fishin". It greives me that man would waste so much time arguing about trivial things when we have soo many lost souls! just think of the revival we could be having if all of these wasted energies were focused on the cause of winning souls!! God help us...

"the devil is extremely subtle in his approach in wrecking havoc in the church. The UPCI's decision to allow TV to be used as advertising tool to spread the gospel is going to lead the UCPI into worlidiness like we never would have imagined upc members will then begin to justify why TV isn't as bad as advertised" - posted by anonymous

You say this, when you are on the internet....I ask how is the web different from TV...How are billboards and radio commercials different from television advertising?

I read with interest Brother Haney's comparison of himself to Moses, Caleb, Joshua, and Nehemiah, and the Tulsa leaders as voices of disunity within Israel against these great men. The voices of disunity against Moses, Caleb, Joshua, and Nehemiah would be: Core against Moses, 10 doubting spies against Caleb, Egypt lovers against Joshua, Sanballet and Tobiah against Nehemiah. This comparisonism of the UPC and the WPF is not only faulty in logic it is downright unscriptural. Where is the high road of blessing your enemies and praying for them who despitefuly use you? Oh, or is it the Tulsa six are not real enemies so do not deserve a blessing, and they have not despitefully abused anyone so no prayers are offered for them?

Why is it that almost everyone thinks the UPC is the only organization God can use? Why is it that so many hate the Men of God who are forming the WPF?

My advice to the Tulsa Brethren is to remain silent about all these UPC attacks. They do not merit a response. Maintain the high ground and be men of faith and courage. Plan your perferred Apostolic direction and stick with it. Let the naysayers and gainsayers keep spouting off. You have a good reason and an excellent purpose before you. If you must be mocked, ridiculed, and blasphemed against: bear the scoldings and the casting out of your names as evil with dignity. Hold your heads up high and go into the sanctuary and lift up a praise with holy hands, without wrath, without doubting, and bless the Lord your God.

To the UPC railers and letter makers, why don't you get the message that is is "your" different views, the ones you contended for in supporting TV, that has divided the body. Take responsibility for violating your own mantra. Brother Haney you knew as you plotted to get this resoultion passed this divided body would occur. You knew this issue could cause a split. But you went right on and moved the TV issue to the dividing point. Shame on you! Stop trying to shame the good men and comparing them to the ungodly who opposed Moses, Joshua, Caleb, and Nehemiah. That was wrong to compare these men as such. I pray your repentance and forgiveness in the Lord.

Pastor G. Reckart
Tampa, Florida
Not affiliated with the UPC or WPF

AMEN Bro. Reckart could not have said it better myself.

Yes, I also was quite interested in the self comparisons to the Bible characters.

I also have traveled to many of the churches in the UPCI. I have found vast differences in standards and beliefs. There is nothing staunch or firm about holiness and doctrinal truth within the UPCI any longer.

The self deception and delusions of grandure of the leadership of the UPCI leads to attacks on good men that wish to narrow the variances that exist within the UPCI by forming a fellowship of their own.

I do not see where they are trying to change the plan of salvation or deminish the grace of God. The attacks by Bro. Haney are uncalled for.

You know this reminds me of jealousy. Brother Haney wants everyone to love the UPC ONLY! Anyone who loves the Brethren forming the WPF are openly ridiculed, mocked, put into categories of the ungodly, all to lead those they can influence to love only the UPC.

Well, the WPF has not been officially formed yet so how can we say we love it already more then the UPC? Really we cannot! But we are insulted by the nine letters circulating around the world from UPC ministers that we must hate the men forming the WPF and also hate the WPF as an alternative choice in Apostolic direction.

Anyone who cannot see the liberalism, the ecumenicalism, and the fall away from holiness standards in the UPC as a whole is blind. Some good Pastors are holding on. God bless them. But the majority of the rank and file are now allowing all sorts of worldliness. Where is the vision of the church without spot, blemish, wrinkle, or any such thing? Where is the vision of perfection for the body of Christ as we enter the endtimes? Where are the good and honest souls willing to "come out of her" and not be partakers of the sins of the whore system and her daughters? At one time the UPC was leading the way in separation and holiness. But no longer can we see or believe this. So, an alternative is needed and maybe the WPF is the answer. Maybe it is not. But stop the letters please. Stop being accusers of the Brethren because they seek a different preferred direction.

Jesus guide your Church, speak to your sons and daughters. We desire your way and not our own. We desire your holiness and not our unrighteousness. Forgive us of our sins and justify us with the power of the Holy Ghost within us.

Pastor G. Reckart
Tampa, Florida
Not affiliated with the UPC or WPF

You are finally right! Two wrongs don’t make a right. You were wrong to divide against any soul God calls a Brother. Not the UPCI calls a Brother. Don’t you dare call unclean what God has cleaned. You are wrong for wishing doom on anybody willing to carry this dear truth in unity with all. You’re the only one mentioning dividing the Body of Christ. (UPCI)

Try the Golden rule Love thy neighbor as thy self.

In closing of this letter allow me to draw from your own words again. “Right now, I must take the risk” to point out that the only thing greater then the United Pentecostal Church, is two United Pentecostal Churches. How could any member of this Great UPCI deny just how effective, powerful, inspiring, victorious, and yes UNITED Gods People are for the same cause. In this world where compromise is on every side there arises a people not willing to divide over issue but rather express the holiness of God in a Greater way. Why work to destroy them who are now laboring to preserve what we always had?

While we are destroying each other over outreach ideas and abilities which is for the same purpose of reaching souls. The Devil is running ramped through our Churches. if we must divide lets divide over doctrine, not causes.

David Smith is the Greatest destruction to truth~ yet not one watchmen on the wall has even bothered to sound and alarm……Strange Fire is being place in the censor. Sorry’ ness has already replace true repentance. The doctrine of the Romans road is bridging souls straight to hell from within the Body of Christ. Anybody have any idea where the fire is to come from to place in the censor for purification before you enter into the presence of all mighty God? I think it starts with a sacrifice of dying out. Anybody care that David Smith is teaching people how to repent by having the whole church repeat after him? He doesn’t repent for them, but rather with them. How many repented with you? The Bible make it clear in the last days that the anti christ will even be able to call fire down from heaven. How many of you great men stood on your platforms and counted as the Strange Fire began to fall…..Don’t take my word for it. Ask Randy Keys about the great fire falling. Do a Google search for UPCI David Smith and watch the fire fall over and over again and now count the souls deceived. The men in the Tulsa Six and UPCI have used David Smith. Men Get a Clue I’m a nobody who is as a filthy rag. Being saved by the divine influence of The Holy Ghost. Which is Grace in the New Testament. I’m following the influence of the Holy Ghost, not just Speaking in other tongues. Its not time to divide but rather find ways that respect everyone ways. Paul respected those he was with always. But let us a least unite to put out this Strange Fire and work to restore the Soul of David Smith. For without the Holy Ghost we have nothing to out reach for.

True unity begins one preacher at a time.

Your Brother in the Lord.

The subject of unity in our local churches is consistently stressed and preached as a key to revival and growth. I wholeheartedly agree. Saints must work in harmony and the pew must be in unity with the pulpit in order for a Church to operate the way God intended. It amazes me that the same preachers who stress this in their pulpits are not as concerned about striving for unity with their ministerial brethren. The Oneness Apostolic Church's all across America need to be united and come together like never before. I realize that are some minimum requirements that most of us will demand in order for us to consider a local church or fellowship part of the Apostolic Church. First of all, the church must believe in the oneness of God, rejecting the doctrine of the trinity. The church will preach the new birth experience as necessary for salvation. This includes repentance, baptism in Jesus Name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. The final component would be living a separated, Godly life, stressing Holiness as part of their daily lifestyle. I know there are many other beliefs and doctrines that will be part of the Apostolic church, but these are the fundamentals that most of us will agree are the trademarks of the Church.

It is imperative that those of us that are part of the church bind together like never before. A quick search on the internet brought up over fifty oneness organizations and fellowships in the United States. I am not so naïve to believe that there will ever be one all encompassing organization that every Apostolic Church belongs to. However, we all need to view all churches, ministers, and saints, regardless of affiliation, as part of the Church and body of Christ, as long as they are truly Apostolic. When the trumpet sounds, and the bride of Christ is raptured, I doubt there will be angels guarding the gate, asking preacher's for their "fellowship card" to see if they qualify for entrance. Whether UPC, A L J C, independent, etc…, God is looking for men and women who are Apostolic.

2007 was an interesting year for the Apostolic Church. The United Pentecostal Church voted in their General Conference to allow Churches to advertise on television. This issue divided many brethren the last few years, and the decision to allow it was celebrated by many and condemned by probably just as many. A quick search on the internet will produce many blogs and message boards from proponents and opponents of this issue. I am not here to celebrate the decision nor speak against it. As with many issues we face today, both sides no doubt had good points in their argument. I want to state up front that I did not vote on the issue, I am a minister in a UPCI Church, but am licensed with another Fellowship. There are those that believe that TV advertising for a local Church will have tremendous results. Only time will truly tell, but they will probably be disappointed. God has never relied on anything man made to spread the gospel, and He wasn’t waiting on an organization to pass a resolution so He could fulfill His purpose on this earth. That being said, if one soul is won to the Lord because they decided to visit a Church they saw on TV, it would be hard to argue with that soul on Judgment Day that it was a bad idea. This is what I mean about their being two sides to the issue. For those that were so against the resolution because it will be detrimental to the Church, I doubt this will happen either. There may be Churches that have already put ads on TV, but I haven’t heard about them. There will probably be very few Churches who utilize TV ads. For a lot of markets it is just too expensive and there are more attractive advertising opportunities for Churches, such as newspapers and mail outs. In my opinion, the opponents are probably more afraid of where this resolution will lead the UPC than the actual resolution itself. The bottom line, TV ads will probably not have a great impact on the Church either way. I do hate to see so many brethren divided so sharply on an issue that in ten years will be mostly forgotten. There is coming a convergence of Television and Internet, so much of what is being discussed will be irrelevant, we just don’t how long that will be. We need to make sure issues like this do not distract the Ministry from our purpose to reach a lost and dying world, but that will be in another post. Now more than ever, let there be Unity among Jesus name, One God, Holiness preachers.
God Bless,

The Young Minister’s Guide To “Getting Ahead” In The WWPF

1. Say something bad about Kenneth Haney, Wayne Huntley, or Allan Abbey.
(If you don’t actually know anything bad about these men, just improvise. The worst that can happen is being asked to preach extended revivals in Elk Grove or Durham. If another ambitious young minister beats you to slandering these men, you can always fall back to the traditionally-hated brethren: Tenney, Mangun, or Hodges)

2. Repeat loudly and often that the UPCI has voted to allow televisions in the home.
(Now, you are thinking that the vote was actually to allow outreach on television, not to allow televisions in the home. But never mind that, because … see, the leaders of the WWPF have led their churches to believe that the former is true, not the latter. It’s a delicate lie, but crucial. Be gentle.)

3. Keep mentioning how historic it all is!
(You will, of course, feel stupid doing this, especially if looking at your fellow attendees or perusing the Tulsa tourist guide. Alas, it must be done! Great men have great egos. Feed the beasts.

4. Rip your voice before you get there, for that camp-meeting sound!

5. Don’t criticize the “appointment” of executives.
(If you didn’t surrender your right to vote you wouldn’t be given the chance to led by such Great Leaders. In fact, they have split the offices among themselves like Roman soldiers dividing the seamed coat of a condemned man.)

6. Don’t wear designer clothes.
(Yes, the wives and children of the Great Leaders do, but they are an elite. Different rules. Don’t forget it!)

7. Exaggerate how mean and controlling you are to your saints, for their own good!
(It’s strange, but for some reason, this will produce an almost atavistic response from these guys. Go figure.)

8. Do not mention prescription drugs in a negative way.
(You never know which executive member is buying in Mexico.)

9. Never ask any of your appointed leaders if they have ever once allowed something (say,
wedding rings) for which they now place souls in hell.
(This is especially important if they have ever had daughters, because once the damsels leave they can get back to true holiness.)

10. Tell some dirty jokes.
(Admittedly, this is a strange one, but, interestingly, there is some link between cynical holiness-types and jokes that would offend a sailor. I don’t get it, but it should work for you.)

11. Talk big, do little.
(Remember it costs money to actually do anything.)

12. Don’t be intimidated by the tough talk.
(I know that’s easy for the rest of us to say, after all, we’re finished with what Johnny King, Danny Purdue, or Leon Frost thinks about anything. Thank you, God! However, it will be much harder for you. In any case,if you get overwhelmed, remember “holiness” is politics in this bunch, not separation from the world. If you cannot deal with the bluster though, go out afterwards with the music people from the church ofwhichever blusterer blustered loudest. This will renew you! They all partake in the evils of Hollywood and are secretly hacked-off about how small their world just became. WARNING: DO NOT CONTINUE HANGING OUT WITH THEM UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE A SUSPECT FAG! And there will be lots and lots of fag-bashing! That’s how you reach them! Didn’t you know that?)

13. Remember Father Time.
(The median age of your leaders is 69.75 years old. They all draw Social Security and Medicare. And they will all be dead before your new organization even buys property. This is great opportunity for the calculating young minister. Ye shall inherit the earth.)

14. Respect the 80% Red-Neck Factor
(If you went to college of any sort, DO NOT MENTION IT! Furthermore, if you ever find yourself being glared at suspiciously by an old fellow who appears to have bought his suit and his car batteries from the same store, quickly mutter something like: “Bless God, if the King James version was good enough for Paul and Silas, it’s good enough for me!” Or anything bad about Haney, Huntley, or Abbey
)
15. Say “Ditto” often. Or quote Rush Limbaugh on anything.
(No explanation needed. Sigh…)

16. Be careful if your wife has a personality.
(The only women in this group who get to be outgoing are the wives and daughters of the Great Leaders)

17. If what is said over the pulpit sounds too sweet, arrange a dinner invitation
(How? By saying something bad about Haney, Huntley, or Abbey! Duhhh… Anyway, it’s at dinner where you’ll hear the real bitterness ooze out.)

18. Avoid tribalism
(You will be tempted to join a “tribe.” Each Great Leader is surrounded by ducklings that compete to be more zealous in the popular issue. This is bad! Why? Because the smart money says that this tribalism will end in civil war. If you see this happening, swallow your pride and come back to the UPC. No, it isn’t perfect. And no, you won’t have a voice until you’re 62 years old. But if you want to love people, build a church, and get along with your brethren, it isn’t the worst thing.)

19. Avoid sympathy (If you are tempted to feel sorry for Haney, Huntley, Abbey, or other UPC figureheads, stop! These men
suffer nothing worse than a bit of stress which will be quickly soothed by their
a.) 6-figure incomes
b. impressive ministerial careers and
c.) the realization that their enemies have committed suicide and called it victory. If you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for the affected missionaries. They are the true
sacrifice-pawns. But don’t mention that. Instant death!)

20. Avoid Nate Wilson!
(Yes, you read that right! With so shocking an advisement, one must hasten to defend one’s logic. Consider these reasons prayerful:
a) Nate Wilson is the new liberal! Think about it. In Tulsa, he is T.F. Tenney.

b) If any minister in the UPCI had the media savvy, secular education, and holiness
credentials to effectively market via television, it was Nate Wilson. He could have done it
right. Ahhh… the heathen Greek said it well, “Whom the Gods would destroy, they first
they make mad…” Months before the fateful vote our fine hero suffered an electoral
defeat at the hands of Alan Abbey. Had he lost to another man he might have
maintained some modicum of objectivity. But Alan Abbey? Who of us is not blinded by
our vanities and hatreds? All Wilson had to do was wait, be magnanimous, and he was a
shoe-in for the next term of district superintendent. Ask anyone in the western district.
From that point, he would have been a contender for the General Superintendant once
his despised brother-in-law term-limited out. But Allan Abbey? It was utterly beneath
him… Or, to shamelessly mime Paradise Lost, “Better to reign in Tulsa, than serve in
Hazelwood.”

c) But he miscalculated his competitors. He thought that because he had successfully
manipulated Pentecom, he could manipulate WWPF. Thus the “offer” to build a
headquarters on his church land. Although Wilson plays a deep game and is used to
being the most ruthless guy at the table, he is choir boy beside the ruthlessness of the
Missouri brothers. Watch him fade away, or should I say, bleed out. Off’d by the ethics
chairman… gotta love that. You heard it here first…

d) He has no strategic allies. Read the list of the members of the WWPF. Who of them
would choose him over Johnny Godair? Who? In fact, in the whole outfit, who does he
control besides guys like Myles Young and John Shoemake? And the last time the Godair
gang heard those names they offered grim, dog-killing smiles.

e) He has placed his church in jeopardy. Both he and Myles had better pray that Bro.
Sargent is too naïve to realize that this is his once-in-a-lifetime chance to “ethically” start
his own church. Bro. Sargent could probably take 200+ members, rent a building, and
finally make 6-figures. And do it all based on “principle.” In any case, it probably won’t
happen: Slave-mentality is hard for anyone but the young to cast off. But … if it did …
that 60k-a-month mortgage on the church might get heavy. The McMansions might
even get sold, except for the fact that no one in California is buying.

f) Wilson fails the ruthlessness test. Consider the personality types that are making up this
WWPF movement. Consider what they respect. Consider the behind-the-scenes jockeying
that is taking place among competitive and egotistical men. It is a jungle. No intelligent
design here, we are talking Darwin, “red in tooth and claw.” And the king of the beasts is
Johnny Godair. This is a man who kicked his daughter and son-in-law to the curb when
they proved inferior leaders. Not sinners, not embarrassments; just inferior leaders!
Think about that! Reverse-nepotism! Admit that you are impressed! That is “Godfather”
type stuff. For every man who sacrifices his kids for the sake of his church, there is a
hundred who sacrifice the church for the sake of their kids. Now consider Wilson in
contrast to that kind of ruthlessness. He knows that people are not happy with Miles and
“executive pastor” Sheila. He knows that he is losing families. He knows the immense
financial risks he is carrying. But denial ain’t just a river…

g) Finally, Wilson didn’t birth this thing to sit at anyone’s feet. Which means, without
powerful allies (beloved by young, unproven ministries yet resented by peers and elders),
he fades away into being another lost and disgruntled independent. And it is all so sad
and ironic, because he really was the smartest guy in the room, or at least that’s what
his wife kept telling him. Oh how the mighty have fallen…

Dude, you are a true jerk

re: the "guide," you post all of THAT, and then sign it ANONYMOUSLY! aahh, the internet, haven for gutless wonders the world over!

I probably shouldn't admit this, but the last super long anonymous comment had me rollin.

I didn't get everything because I'm not privy to the personalities of people in organizational innerworkings (and don't care to), and maybe I feel this way about it because I just finished reading Catcher in the Rye.

It was funny, in a Holden Caulfieldish kind of way. "That camp meeting sound"? LOL.

re: names on the WPF flyer, i've heard second-hand, but from a highly reputable source, that one minister specifically requested that the WPF remove his name from their literature, but they have failed to do so.

for me, that calls into question, if not the motives of the WPF (which i choose to believe are genuine, even if i don't agree with them), then certainly their methods.

I am shocked by people who will throw slander at men they have probably never even met and then post it
as "anonymous." I wonder if there is a way to block anonymous postings of this nature? One of the postings was railing against a David Smith... I've never even heard of the guy, but be careful touching a man of God. Don't forget God will always take care of the pulpit. And then the posting on "getting ahead" in the WPF, this guy doesn't have a clue. Have the courage to stand behind your words if you're going to blast someone.

Chantell, thanks for seeing the humor. The majority does not seem to understand satire.

Who does this split affect the most? Those of my good friends on the mission field. I could really care less about what another brother thinks of the church I attend, our standards, whatever. Our business ought to be about winning the lost with this awesome message, first preached and practiced by the apostles. Peter and Paul were prime examples of what we would call today conservative and liberal. Which one was right? Both of them! The local church will remain autonomous to do as they are led by God, and the big shots will do as they feel led. I wish no ill will to the Tulsa group, and i wish them great revival. Now some might ask how can you wish them Godspeed. Easy, I want to extend to them the MERCY that they and the REST of us need now and in the immediate future. I know the origins of rings, holidays, make-up, dress, TV, whatever the holiness issues are: I am well versed in them after 25 years in Oneness. Your ornaments will not keep you from making in the end, but I promise all that OUR ATTITUDE will cause the metal detector in heaven to go off before rings and watches. A merciless, unforgiving, proud, uncompassionate, un-longsuffering, attitude will follow us to the Great White Throne (some men sins go on before them..). The same goes for the ultra liberals to whom there are no boundaries, for they will answer to God also. I don’t care for rock concert worship, overdressing, under dressing, but again, I don't go to that/those churches, or am responsible for that group. I am concerned about APOSTOLIC MINISTRY and DIVINE IMPARTATION in these last and evil days. As our world becomes more dangerous and unpredictable, Daniel says that "They that know their God shall be strong and do exploits". So to all my Apostolic Oneness brothers: I will stay with what one brother called "that backslidden organization" (I laughed aloud to myself...maybe I haven’t gone to enough CONFRENCES to see these heathens, but the folks in my district are trying to live for God, I think...) because I find that I need mercy, compassion, and patience, for I am but flesh. And If I can receive that from man, I am confident that my God is richer in his provisions than man..

To Anonymous who printed out the rules for the young preachers to get ahead,,,,,,Sir, you need to pray through. You are so full of venom, hate and wretchedness that you must be a verrry miserable human being. My heart goes out to you who thinks himself so wise to know the hearts and intents of others. These men you reviled were brethren of like precious faith just a few months ago but now are the scourge of the earth according to your ranting and raving. God have mercy on you! If anything would make me believe in the integrity of the WPF, it is people like you who are so bitter against them. You shoot yourself in the foot. Again I admonish you to pray through!!

The author of the young ministers guide has no bitterness or malice and does not know many of the men listed but enjoys controversial satire. It was all written from things the author read on various blogs and forums that is public knowledge. He may never come to God. Maybe more should be careful what they write in public websites. You never know what backsliders are reading.

You all have far too much time on your hands. Why don't you spend your time doing something worthwhile for the Kingdom of God, like teaching a Home Bible Study or inviting people to church or helping the widows....maybe praying (or even cleaning the flushes at the church).

Who are you to tell us we have too much time on our hands? You are hear reading and writing on the same thread. Maybe you should practice what you preach.

Wow, what next???? I would think whomever you support, just do what you do!!! No need for the beating each other up. I was not raised in this truth of ONE GOD, JESUS NAME BAPTISM,HOLINESS AND SEPARATION,HOLY GHOST INFILLING,"SPEAKING WITH TONGUES",MOVEMENT !!!! I THINK IT'S GREAT!!! I HAVE FRIENDS AND (NOW) LOVED ONES ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE. WE RESPECT EACH OTHER AS HUMAN BEINGS, NO MATTER WHAT WE STILL LOVE EACH OTHER!!!! IF I NEED HELP DON'T DOG ME, PRAY FOR ME AND LIKE WISE, I'LL PRAY FOR YOU!! THIS BLOG THING IS REALLY NOT GOOD FOR PEOPLE, WHO DON'T KNOW US(THE CHURCH), TO HAVE TO SEE .I LOVE MY ELDERS (BRO. HANEY,BRO JOHNNY GODAIR,BRO TINNEY, THE LIST GOES ON ,FOR BOTH ORGANIZATIONS)LET'S LET GOD DEAL AS HE WILL WITH THIS, NOT AS WE WILL!!!! AFTER ALL , WE DO SEEK HIS WILL ,RIGHT????

The young ministers list comments, are hilarious! It's amazing that some of you would be offended, by the comments. You were never offended when PSR/SAC like people were slicing and dicing men they've never met, such as Anthony Mangun, K.C. Haney (CLC for its worldliness), Wayne Huntley and many others.

Example: (true story)
A friend was golfing with his brother in law (who is a pastor) and this pastor was so negative on Anthony Mangun! Our friend asked him, have you ever met Pastor Mangun? his reply was NO! What a hypocrite! Needless to say, our friend ate his brother in laws lunch!
Whatever happend to the commandment, Do Not Bear FALSE WITNESS against your neighbor! Does that not apply to us today!
I'm proud to be a part of this organization, we must pray for our leadership and continue in the apostles doctrine.

We don't have a television, and we never want on, its our personal choice. The vote to advertise on TV is an avenue for us to further the gospel, again, television is now becoming obsolete.
We need to teach relationship with Jesus Christ and not only being Spirit filled but Spirit lead. By doing so we would love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourselves, Jesus said and that's what we need to DO.

I'm excited what God is doing in this end time.
Keep the faith.

I hope that none of these writers of the negative posting on either side of this issue are Minister of the Gospel or even worse really Pastors.If so they are a poor excuse for one.

I was raised in this and I knew Bro Clyde Haney (Bro Kenneth Haney father) , Bro David Gray and I don’t believe they would had voted for this resolution.

If a backslider came back to your church would he recognize your church.

My God is the same Yesterday, Today and forever.

Are we trying to limit God. Does God need our help. Have we reached the point that God can’t do it without our help.

God is capable of reaching the lost without TV. Why do we need debate something we know is wrong.

What is next, Are we going to advertise on a Beer can

Dan D

we got to stand for what is right.
I am praying for the worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship to grow.
I am also praying for the UPCI.
I want to go to church were they preach it hard.
the UPCI has got weak
GBU

Fellowship with other churches in our section had ceased long ago. Our youth, although trying to fit in, could not find any common ground with the youth of our fellow churches. If you disagree with anyone you are immediately labeled as "mean", "jealous", or "adverse to technology".

It's as simple as this. I do not believe the same as the majority of the United Pentecostal Church. Although I have been raised in it for my entire life, I feel no emotional attachment to the U.P.C. I simply do not believe as they do now.

Please quit doing what you are accusing others of doing. Quit making fun of or accusing the men who have chosen to fellowship with others who believe as they do. You have a right to continue as you are. I do not feel as if we have any responsibility to an organization. Our devotion is to God, and we simply live our lives for him day by day. This is not a decision we have made against anyone, but it is a decision we have made to be true what we first believed.

Kristi

The propose of the new fellowship is that in years past the difference between standards from one UPC church to another was little. Now the difference is great. Some of the churches like ours have kept to the old ways. Yet we have UPC churches close by that look like they belong to any OTHER type of church, just not UPC, Apostolic Jesus Name. The Bible taught us to be separate. We should not look like every other Tom, Dick and Harry’s Church.

As we all have read “he is the same yesterday, today and forever”.

If we really believe that then why should our standards change?

Are we calling UPC’s minister that have preached for the last 50 years liers.
Standards should not change, If he is the same yesterday, today and forever. There is a reason those old time men of God preached keeping strong standards. They would had not voted that resolution in.

Are we going to fall pray to the evils that has hit every other denomination. No we are different; We have the power of his name on our side.

TV has no place in our homes or churches even as videos.

We have always had good church. But I believe our churches will see the power of God like we have not seen in a long time because we are purifying our churches to be involved in a fellowship of like minded people of god. That is not afraid to stand up for God and the standards he want us to live by. We believe God does not need our help. We with his guidance can reach the lost. We don’t need to worry whether a backslider would recognize our church.

Can you say that or has your church allowed things to creep in that used to be preached against.

God has not changed – have you

Dan’D

I'm going to try and pull my thoughts together into something coherent, so bear with me. I'm not sure how it will be received, but I would like to touch on several previous comments and some made by those high in the organization.

First, we understand and accept that the salvation plan of the New Testament is pretty much summed up by Peter's statements in Acts 2:38, declaring that repentance, baptism in Jesus name and receiving the Holy Ghost is pretty much followed throughout the new testament. That is what links us to apostolic doctrine that was later corrupted by elements that moved into the body after the death of the apostles.

Second, not every form of division and debate is of the devil. Simply put, if you will move past Acts 2, you will see that the early church had its share of debate. For those who know me, you know I've continued in apostolic tradition throughout my life.

In Acts 3 after the initial out-pouring of the Holy Ghost, the church was attacked and called into question by the then-standing, ruling religious power in Jerusalem, brought before the Annas, the high priest and Caiaphas, John, Alexander and the families related to the high priest. Understand this is the bunch who stood before Pilate and demanded Christ's death just over a month before. The outward debate did not stop the church from growing. Peter preached to them on the day of Pentecost, calling them murderers. Note, he's still talking to the high priest, for all you cats that don't believe you can biblically withstand someone who is in FALSE DOCTRINE, HERESY or SIN, because of their age or position. There is a vast gulf between rebuke and railing or reviling someone. Don't think you won't be put out of an assembly or an organizations if you stand for God's word...even in Pentecost.

Third, confusion and sin inside the body will be dealt with by God. Annanias and Sapphira conspired to lie to Peter about the land they sold and the amount. God dealt with it and great fear fell on the church and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles, because the respect and fear of God was again dominant in the church. We worry so much about people leaving and going. For those of you who remember GC in the 90's, we lost a lot of men and women who walked up and laid their licenses on the altar and walked out.

Fourth, in Acts 10-11 the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost in the house of Cornelius the Jews at first rejoiced that the Gentiles had also received the Holy Ghost, but by Acts 15, certain converted Pharisees tried to subvert the Gentiles by telling them they had to keep the law of Moses and be circumcised to be save. This sparked a major debate in the church and ended up with Peter confronting them and settling the debate before the church elders in Acts 15:14-29. I mention this, because I have recently had this same debate in a church. The apostles settled this fight a long time ago. No need to rehash it with the HRM crowd. We see at the end of the chapter that Paul and Barnabas had such a contention among them over John Mark going with them that they parted company. That wasn't over a doctrine, just a man! It was all in God's will though as we see Paul chose Silas as a companion and continued on his journey. Not all contention is bad.

Fifth and finally, in Galatians 2, the Paul withstood Peter to his face BEFORE ALL because he was to be blamed. Even though Paul and Peter were by that time established apostles, one to the Gentiles and one to the Jews, Paul was still wise enough to know Peter was the spokesperson for the church as a whole, selected by Christ himself. If you read the entire chapter, it gives a lot of insite as to respect of persons and people seeming to be in high positions. Do a study on verse 5. They did not give the men place for even an hour...why? Because of the gospel. Paul even documented that Barnabas was carried away by their dissimulation.

Debate is in the blood of the apostolic church, whether we want to accept it or not. Jesus braided a whip and laid into the money changers in the temple, but we 3rd and 4th generation apostolics seem to think that anything verbalized beyond a whisper is of the devil. Our views on leadership and what is leadership are so skewed that we have no concept of apostolic order. Paul's version of "Let all things be done decently and in order," had NOTHING to do with PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE and definitely didn't have a flip to do with a social program created by men.

These men were the head honchos of the early Apostolic church of the first age. Yet we want to critique good men of God in our generation for leaving an organization or taking a stand? How apostolic we are.... Debate is debate. Opinion is opinion. The last thing we need is to strike out verbally against God's anointed and slander them as renegades, rebels and rogues, as some in leadership roles of the UPCI have done with those who left them. The entire early church was marked with those titles. I've even debated on the UPCI site about this very subject.

Jesus said in the sermon on the mount that we were blessed when men withdrew from us, or cast out our name as evil, or drove us from the synagogues. He stated he would send us prophets, wise men and scribes and some they would persecute, kill and cast out of the synagogues. Maybe I'm just an ignorant hick, but I don't think he meant the city hall when he said synagogues. I think the hint was they would kick some of us out of the church. And that would imply that someone in "authority" did the kicking!

And don't think I'm being hateful about any of this. I'm not. I was rebuked on this very site a year ago by a UPCI evangelist who told me that I was wrong and no one would leave the UPC. Amazing what God will confirm in a year. And don't bother asking if I'm for or against television. I'm simply for Jesus. He is where my allegiance lies.

We need to rethink where the spiritual authority of our ministries lies and that will destroy much of the reason for debate. Misguided thinking even among leaders has always been the cause of strife in organizations. Jesus in Matt. 20:25-28, told his disciples that the ministry will not bear rule over the church like the leaders in the gentile nations. I think we missed it in many aspects when we started putting words to paper in a manual that revises every few years, and start labeling men as sinners who are taking stands for their convictions even in the face of leaders they love who they feel are in error. I've been put in that place many times. God has always called the shots and dealt with it. I think he will in this situation too.

May God bless the ministers of the UPC and the WPF and bring them to unity as brethren, despite their minor philosophical differences. If they don't, this is only going to be the first of many splits and fractures. God is going to make us learn the lesson of unity in the body.

When Bro. Haney seen the 50 -50 split of those for and against T.V. Advertising he could have stopped it right there. It could have been tabled seeing it caused so much division, but NO! He said "Let it go". He is the one that cause this. My pastor went to the meeting in Tulsa to just check things out. It was all positives. He said it is the first time in 15 years that he has heard righteousness & Holiness preached at a conference level the way it was preached there. As of right now we are going to wait and see what comes of all of it. We may go, we may not. If we as a body of believers allow the world to creep into our homes & put his foot in our doors, it just a matter of time till it moves in. I pray that the UPC as a whole would seek God on their faces in repentance and allow the Holy Ghost to show them the error of their ways and this T.V. advertising comes to not for if it does not other things will be welcomed into lives of great men & women of God. We must build altars and break up our fallow ground so that seeds of righteousness and holiness can bring forth the precious fruit to reach the lost souls in this world. Whatever entertains instructs. Please be vigilant and press forward unto holiness and allow not the temptation of the world to enter in. My fellowlabors we can win this world if we have the desire & passion to do so. T.V. is not the answer. Preaching & teaching is the answer to this lost and dieing world. We can do it without worldly influence Bro & Sis’s.
“If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” John 15:19

I think the UPC is about 30 years too late for TV. If they were going to use TV as an outreach, they should have done so a long time ago, before the so called "televangelists" of the 80's (and today) ruined the public's perception of Christianity. I'm afraid that non-religious people will simply lump the UPC in the same pot with the rest of the religious garbage on TV these days. It's a shame that the television airwaves have been dominated by false preachers begging for money, & that they have done so in the name of Christ. In my opinion, these TV preachers like Robert Tilton, Don Stewart, Peter Popoff, etc., etc., etc., are atheists in the first place, because no one who actually believes in God could do the things these guys do & feel justified. Had the UPC stepped up & led the way 30 years ago, & set the standard on TV, perhaps people would have a different opinion of religion & Christianity today. They had the best preaching, singing, & overall talent, hands down. Instead, the UPC has preached against technology instead of content for all these years, while false preachers have made a mockery & joke of Christianity. I think the UPC is simply too late. The world isn't going to necessarily distinguish the UPC from other religious groups. I'm not saying, however, that the UPC is wrong for using TV as an outreach, but consider this; if you were mining for diamonds or gold, it would be just as important to know what the fake looks like, because this simply makes the real thing stand out all the more once you find it. Not being on TV always made the UPC stand out in my opinion - it made them shine. However, perhaps the world will "feel" a difference when they see the UPC on TV. As for the WPF, it's interesting to note that Johnny Godair preached for years & years how every split was of the devil, yet is at the head of this split. The United Pentecostal Church needs to be just that - united. I hate to see this division that Satan is causing.

I think the UPC is about 30 years too late for TV. If they were going to use TV as an outreach, they should have done so a long time ago, before the so called "televangelists" of the 80's (and today) ruined the public's perception of Christianity. I'm afraid that non-religious people will simply lump the UPC in the same pot with the rest of the religious garbage on TV these days. It's a shame that the television airwaves have been dominated by false preachers begging for money, & that they have done so in the name of Christ. In my opinion, these TV preachers like Robert Tilton, Don Stewart, Peter Popoff, etc., etc., etc., are atheists in the first place, because no one who actually believes in God could do the things these guys do & feel justified. Had the UPC stepped up & led the way 30 years ago, & set the standard on TV, perhaps people would have a different opinion of religion & Christianity today. They had the best preaching, singing, & overall talent, hands down. Instead, the UPC has preached against technology instead of content for all these years, while false preachers have made a mockery & joke of Christianity. I think the UPC is simply too late. The world isn't going to necessarily distinguish the UPC from other religious groups. I'm not saying, however, that the UPC is wrong for using TV as an outreach, but consider this; if you were mining for diamonds or gold, it would be just as important to know what the fake looks like, because this simply makes the real thing stand out all the more once you find it. Not being on TV always made the UPC stand out in my opinion - it made them shine. However, perhaps the world will "feel" a difference when they see the UPC on TV. As for the WPF, it's interesting to note that Johnny Godair preached for years & years how every split was of the devil, yet is at the head of this split. The United Pentecostal Church needs to be just that - united. I hate to see this division that Satan is causing.

When I found out that the UPC had passed the resolution on TV, I felt like someone had punched me in the gut. I could not believe that an organization that I had grown up with and loved since I was a child had done something so totally against what they had stood for for so long. That was a basic standard preached from the pulpit from the beginning. My heart breaks to think of the churches that will follow in the path that these men have cleared. You can call it what you want to but, if it was sin one year ago, ten years ago, fifty years ago, IT IS STILL SIN TODAY!!!!!!! I can only pray that there will be some sincere people in a bunch of churches who will stand up and say "I don't want to go to hell no matter what you say is o.k. I'm still gonna stand for truth!!!!"

The early New Testament Church began without a Oneness
Organization as we know of "them" today. Organization serves its purpose in working collectively to win the lost. After reading many of these messages I think we all need to ask God to give all of us a
right spirit and a clean heart. I believe the PAW was the first Oneness group. But from the PAW came others who had a part in forming another organization. And this has been repeated from time to time. No one has a monopoly on the preaching of the gospel. In the time of Jesus one of his apostles made a statement about one
casting out devils and Jesus said to "forbid him not, he that is not against us is for us." If some brethren want to leave the UPC and form another organization, if it's done with the right motives, etc. then there is nothing wrong with it. And if others wish to remain in the UPC that is fine too. And if down the road some choose to leave the WPF to form another organization that is fine too, as long as people have the right spirit and attitude and THE APOSTLES DOCTRINE is the message they will be preaching. And the brethren who have been independent all their lives and never been a part of a Oneness Organization, God bless them too, as long as they
have a right spirit and attitude and are preaching the same message.
Jesus prayed in John 17 that his follower would all be ONE. It does not matter which APOSTOLIC PENTECOSTAL organization you belong to as long as the truth is being preached, you have love in your heart for the brethren, and your spirit is right. God help all of us to truly be seen by others as the true disciples of Jesus because we have love one for another. God bless all of you.

shuuuut uuuuppppppp!!!!!

shut up!!!!!!!!!!!

I'M A 5TH GENERATION ON MY MOM'S SIDE AND A 4TH GENERATION ON MY DAD'S SIDE OF THIS GREAT AND ONLY TRUTH WHICH IS ACTS 2:38. SO MY KNOWLEDGE OF UPCI,AMF AND NOW WPF IS EXTENSIVE. BOTH MY PARENTS WERE RAISED IN UPC IN THEIR CHILDHOOD YEARS AND YEARS LATER WHEN THEY WERE MARRIED AND I WAS BORN MY MOTHER WAS GOING TO BRO. VERBAL BEAN'S MOTHER'S CHURCH IN GREENS BAYOU, TEXAS. SOME YEARS LATER AFTER BRO. BEAN BECAME PASTOR, WE MOVED BACK THERE UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP AND EVEN THEN IN 1967 JUST BEFORE AMF STARTED UP (I WAS 11 YEARS OLD) BRO. BEAN WOULD PREACH ABOUT THE FUTURE OF JESUS NAME PEOPLE AND PREACHERS AND THEIR CHURCHES LOOSING A GRIP ON HOLINESS AND PRAYER AND FASTING. HIS PROPHECTIC PREACHING HAS COME TO PASS!!! ALOT OF ORGANIZATIONAL PREACHERS OF TODAY SAY THEY STAND AGAINST ISSUES WHEN REALLY THEY DON'T ENFORCE IT IN THEIR OWN CHURCHES. WEDDING RINGS HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN UNRESOLVED STANDARD IN UPC, ALOT OF NORTHERN CHURCHES AND THOSE IN CALIFORNIA HAVE NEVER REALIZED THAT THE WEARING OF WEDDING RINGS ORIGINATED FROM THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. A RING ON THE FINGER IS NO DIFFERENT THAN A RING IN THE NOSE OR EAR OR ELSEWHERE TO GOD. NOW IT'S EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK. AT WORK I HAVE SINNERS NOW WHEN THEY ASK ME IF I HAD SEEN A CERTAIN PROGRAM ON T.V. AND I LET THEM KNOW THAT AS A APOSTOLIC PENTECOSTAL I FEEL IT WRONG TO HAVE A T.V. IN MY HOME - THEY LOOK AT ME IN SURPRISE AND INFORM ME THAT OF ALL THE PENTECOSTALS THEY KNOW OF THAT EVERYONE HAS A T.V. AND HAS FOR YEARS. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TAUGHT TO RESPECT THE MINISTRY AND I WOULD NEVER CALL OUT ANY PREACHERS'
NAME FOR FEAR OF GOD'S WRATH ACCORDING TO HIS WORD. BUT I WILL SAY THAT ALOT OF PREACHERS NOW DAYS WANT THE BIG NUMBER OF ATTENDANCE WHICH INCLUDES TITHING AND EVEN THO THEY MAY CAN SAY THEY AREN'T HIRED BY A BOARD FROM THE CHURCH THEY STILL ARE A "HIRELING" BECAUSE THEY WON'T PREACH THE MESSAGE LIKE THEY USE TO FOR FEAR OF LOOSING BIG TITHE PAYERS. OH I'LL GET AMENS FROM THOSE WHO STILL BELIEVE IT THE "STRAIGHT AND NARROW" BUT THOSE WHO HAVE BECOME ACCUSTOMED TO THE MODERN DAY MESSAGE OF "NOW YOU AREN'T SUPPOSE TO JUDGE BECAUSE GOD IS THE ONLY JUDGE" AND "GOD IS LOVE" THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH MOST ONENESS CHURCHES TODAY. TICKLE THE SAINTS EARS TO WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR AND DON'T STEP ON ANYONE'S TOES OR THEY WON'T COME BACK. JESUS NAME PREACHERS NEED TO "GET BACK TO BASICS"!!! ORGANIZATONS ARE MAN MADE. I'M NOT SAYING IT'S WRONG TO BELONG TO A ORGANIZATION. THE MAIN THING IS WHEN GOD COMES BACK FOR HIS CHURCH - THERE WILL BE SAINTS IN LOOSE CHURCHES AND STRONG CHURCHES THAT WILL BE CAUGHT UP TO MEET HIM AND SADLY THERE WILL BE LUKE-WARM AND BACKSLIDDEN AND HYPOCRITES AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST CHURCH-TROUBLE MAKERS THAT WILL BE LEFT ON THE CHURCH PEWS IN LOOSE CHURCHES AN STRONG CHURCHES. THE SAME WITH THE MINISTRY.

In regard to the "Young Ministers Guide" I could not agree more that your satire is unfortunately almost too truthful. It is funny, but sad that so much truth exists within it. How many ministers UPC, WWPF, and otherwise have you seen follow the very path described? And yes, I've also seen their families live a separate standard than they hold up for everyone else. This is what causes so much trouble for us when witnessing to people. So many people have seen this before. And finally, why does there need to be all of this division within Pentecostalism? Sadly, it has been here all along. I'm not calling anybody right or wrong, but rather than attempt to create division, the men of the WWPF should be looking for resolution within the UPC. We are only as united as Pentecostals as we try to be. These men should only do this with nearly unanimous votes from their congregation. If men are leading others away from an organization that upholds transparency and accountability for the wrong reasons, they will be accountable in the end.

First of all UPCI is not the only "organization" and yes that is all it is, is an organization, going to Heaven, even though that is what is preached in UPC churches. My husband and I just recently left a UPC church to attend another church (NON UPC)because it was becoming so much of a "cult" that we did not want to drink the kool-aid AT ALL! It scares us as we look back at things and how controlling the preacher was/IS and no we are not rebellious. In fact the preacher is on the committees for the new "organization." The way I look at things who cares if there is a split, isn't the ultimate goal to "save souls?" I think all of you people that are 3rd, 4th, 5th generation blah blah need to get off your high horses and come back to the earth we live in and realize you are not holier than though. I have been there and done that and I will take my chances sitting on a Baptist pew before going back to another "pentecostal" church. There are more hypocrits on those pews and back stabbers than outside the walls! Am I venting, probably. You people are so crazy about going on and on about the great split so now I ask the question "Who is going to Heaven, UPCI or Worldwide fellowship people?" oh my, God is going to have to choose now. Get a life people!
As for the person that talks about the wedding rings, I really don't think God is going to send someone to Hell for wearing a ring. Again, get a life. I hope when you witness to people you don't blab all the "rules" out before they fall in love with Jesus and love them for who they are and not what you can turn them into! I think that is the least of God's worrys and who are you to judge and say what God may think about rings? Let me ask you this have you spent more than $75.00 on an outfit, hmmm what does the bible say about costly apparel, a sin is a sin, no matter what it is. (not that wearing a wedding ring is a sin). May God help you all!!

Rose in Cullman Alabama!!

I think the UPC is about 30 years too late for TV. If they were going to use TV as an outreach, they should have done so a long time ago, before the so called "televangelists" of the 80's (and today) ruined the public's perception of Christianity. I'm afraid that non-religious people will simply lump the UPC in the same pot with the rest of the religious garbage on TV these days. It's a shame that the television airwaves have been dominated by false preachers begging for money, & that they have done so in the name of Christ. In my opinion, these TV preachers like Robert Tilton, Don Stewart, Peter Popoff, etc., etc., etc., are atheists in the first place, because no one who actually believes in God could do the things these guys do & feel justified. Had the UPC stepped up & led the way 30 years ago, & set the standard on TV, perhaps people would have a different opinion of religion & Christianity today. They had the best preaching, singing, & overall talent, hands down. Instead, the UPC has preached against technology instead of content for all these years, while false preachers have made a mockery & joke of Christianity. I think the UPC is simply too late. The world isn't going to necessarily distinguish the UPC from other religious groups. I'm not saying, however, that the UPC is wrong for using TV as an outreach, but consider this; if you were mining for diamonds or gold, it would be just as important to know what the fake looks like, because this simply makes the real thing stand out all the more once you find it. Not being on TV always made the UPC stand out in my opinion - it made them shine. However, perhaps the world will "feel" a difference when they see the UPC on TV. As for the WPF, it's interesting to note that Johnny Godair preached for years & years how every split was of the devil, yet is at the head of this split. The United Pentecostal Church needs to be just that - united. I hate to see this division that Satan is causing.

ROSE, YOUR PROBLEM IS THAT IF YOU WOULD PRAY AND BE HUMBLE AS A SAINT LIKE YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO THEN PENTECOST WOULDN'T SEEM LIKE A CULT TO YOU. A PREACHER IS THE SHEPARD OF THE FLOCK WHICH YOU CAN'T BE SAVED WITHOUT A PREACHER. AND ALSO A RING IS JEWLERY AND THE BIBLE SPEAKS AGAINST THE WEARING OF GOLD AND SILVER. ALSO NO I DON'T SPEND ALOT OF MONEY ON "COSTLY ARRAY" I HARDLY EVER GO SHOPPING FOR CLOTHING AND WHEN I DO - I DON'T SPEND ALOT OF MONEY ON EACH ITEM. ALSO I DON'T CONSIDER MYSELF HOLIER THAN THOU. I JUST BELIEVE IT THE OLD FASHION WAY LIKE IT WAS YEARS AGO. ALSO THERE IS MORE THAN UPC OR WWPF - THERE IS MANY OTHER ONENESS ORGANIZATIONS THAT PREACH THE TRUTH AND MANY ONENESS CHURCHES THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN AFFILIATED WITH ANY ORGANIZATION. GOD DOESN'T HAVE TO CHOOSE BECAUSE WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE ASSOCIATED WITH A ONENESS ORGANIZATION DOESN'T MATTER TO GOD - BUT WHAT DOES MATTER TO HIM IS "DO YOU HAVE THE SAME SPIRIT THAT ABIDED IN CHRIST?" AND THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE THAT IS TO BE PRAYFUL AND HAVE A REPENTANT SPIRIT. THE PROBLEM WITH ALOT OF JESUS NAME PEOPLE IS THEY ARE SO CAUGHT UP IN EVERY DAY-TO-DAY THINGS THAT THEY DON'T SPEND TIME IN PRAYER TO KEEP THE RENEWAL OF THE HOLY GHOST BUBBLING IN THEIR SOUL. FROM THE SOUND OF YOU WITH YOUR ACQUISATIONS OF PENTECOST BEING A CULT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU REFUSE TO SUBMIT TO A PASTOR'S GUIDANCE AND AUTHORITY. THE PREACHER IS THE ONE GOD ORDAINS AND SETS OVER HIS PEOPLE SO THEY CAN BE SAVED. YOUR COMMENT THAT "YOU'LL TAKE YOUR CHANCES AND SIT ON A BAPTIST PEW" IS SCARY. I WOULD NEVER MAKE A CHOICE AND SAY "I'LL TAKE MY CHANCES". YOU EVIDENTLY NEVER CAME TO THE REALIZATION OF THE TRUTH AND HAD IT REALLY EMBEDDED IN YOUR SOUL AND MIND. IT'S HEAVEN OR HELL - WHICH DO YOU CHOOSE?

My husband and I have come to the realization of truth and that is why we don't attend a Pentecostal church! We do chose Heaven and still believe in oneness.
I do chose Heaven and yes my husband and I did submit and such a typical comment from a typical pentecostal saying someone didn't submit. Anyway may God bless your soul and have mercy on each one of you! You have been so brainwashed I will waste no more time on any thing else with this matter and wash my hands of it all! God Bless!
R

Here is a study for George Barna:

Of all the ministers that have given themselves over to adultery

HOW MANY OF THEM WERE LEGAILISTIC, NON WEDDING RING WEARERS?


(I dont use the term "fallen" you can fall off a ladder or a roof and its an accident, committing adultery is not however accidental)

They are hard on non Biblical issues such as proclaiming to the world (That I might add is full of people