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A hundred times thank you for posting this.

Wow. Thank you for posting this. I'm glad to see direct, forthright communication coming from a man of God whom I respect. -Melissa F

I appreciate the transparency coming from UPCI leadership. I am cautious, however, when I read statements that discourage "brethren from going to the Tulsa event. No good would come from their going - only that they would be used." I sense leadership fears that other brethern could be persuaded to join the opposing point of view. Have we heard the full arguments for or against the resolution? Let all make their own decisions after listening to all views.

the devil is extremely subtle in his approach in wrecking havoc in the church. The UPCI's decision to allow TV to be used as advertising tool to spread the gospel is going to lead the UCPI into worlidiness like we never would have imagined upc members will then begin to justify why TV isn't as bad as advertised. Just because a few godly men decided to make a stand for what's right and holy doesn't make them hungry for power or position. UPCI is headed in the wrong direction with the passing of this new resolution ,futhermore why should voting on a issue such as TV be voted on every year if this was something that the UPCI stood against firmly why all of sudden the change. The men standing firm against the TV issue are the ones that 'll be blessed by God.

My pastor is a Presbyter, and we are in the newly splintered Western District. My pastor and I have talked extensively about this, and I have come to some conclusions. The main one that I will share here has to do with misplaced focus.

My city has 50,000 people in it. The vast majority are not saved. Most UPC churches would not be able to claim even half of their cities for God. Shouldn't our attention, resources, and energy be spent on trying to win our local cities, rather than worrying about whether or not our brother in a nearby city has a TV or not? Even with the UPC in general, wouldn't we be better served to worry about our local unsaved city, rather than worry about some trivial thing like conservatism vs. liberalism? Aren't we all on the same side here? Don't we all believe you need the Holy Ghost to be saved? Jesus-name baptism?

Officially, I am against this group splitting off for unity's sake, but it will not affect my church, nor our intentions to win our city. I suggest a similar mindset will serve us all, and the Kingdom, well.

To the person who believes the new leadership that stands against TV will be the blessed ones of God....TV is on the way to being obsolete. You can watch the content of TV on the internet, even your cell phone! One can see/read/engage in ANYTHING on the internet. Ministers are falling to pornography everyday. So, why not preach against these technologies, as well? Truly, these are issues of the heart. You CANNOT legislate righteousness! Either a person wants to live holy before God, or doesn't. After all, isn't that what we have the Holy Ghost for - to lead and guide us? If we trust in man to tell us the "do's and don't's", what will we do when our pastor is not there? Men are fallible - it's the Bible that stands forever, and will be what takes us to Heaven. While leadership certainly has their place, we will stand before GOD, and God alone. And He's the one that shed his blood for our sins. We MUST study how Jesus lived in order to live a Christ-like life. Are we exhibiting the Fruits of the Spirit? Do we have LOVE that the world will be attracted to? If we do ALL these things, and have not love, we're nothing. Scripture says "they will know we're Christians by our love one to another." This is what attracts souls to the Kingdom of God. I fear this division is sending a terrible message to souls that desparately need saving.

Here's some fodder for thought for the UPCI, the Pentecostal Worldwide Fellowship, and anonymous posters:

UPCI: There should be no surprise that some would depart from the fellowship after years of discussion, surveys, and grass root arguments for or against resolution 4 (and it isn't just about tv). The decision was made and the UPCI should move forward. Present a positive focus for those staying, along with a kind diplomatic word to those who think they should leave, and stop the "generals" from sending out a deluge of letters in a "strong arm" effort to stop interest in Tulsa because it is only revealing your hand. You thought a few independent minded folk, or ultra-conservatives might go, but now your realizing there is a group of alienated, moderate to conservative crowd wanting to "map a preferred Apostolic direction," who have traditionally had a big influence in the UPCI. The cost might have been a little more than expected, thus the heightened damage control. Move forward with your ability to advertise and set up a scenario utilizing Media Missions to present a united front to impact the world. Focus on holiness and separation issues in a right attitude that collects further support and alleviates fears. And do your thing...and yes, you do have history behind you.

Tulsa: Keep quiet and certainly don't start counter letter writing. Don't try to build something that is anti-upci. We've seen the train wrecks that have occurred when a group defines themselves by simply being "anti" and not "for" anything. Don't send out names on your mailer until you've done your homework. Actually, you shouldn't have put all those names on your flyer in the first place. Present your scheduled topics, present your desired developments, rather than hoping for an early “perceived validation” strike that backfires. However, you might be okay because of all the "generals" sending out letters. Don't start something just because of Res. 4, develop a mission, craft a creative world mission template, focus on youth, and whatever else you feel creatively separates you from what you might feel is becoming too denominational. Have a kind diplomatic word to say about your years spent in the UPCI and do your thing, and no, you have no history behind you...so you had better manage your vision casting or you will end up with another vision on the "scrap" pile.

Lastly, for all you who post anonymously...your validity drops right through the floor. Are you that afraid of standing by your post, that you use a screen name or an anon tag? Here are people (from BOTH ends of the spectrum) talking of resolutions, tv, internet, technology, fellowships, the blessings of God, etc., all the while falling into the trap of hiding behind the cloak of anonymity. Unbelievable.
Adios,
Kevin Bradford

P.S. I read a book entitled “Pentecostalism” that noted in every Pentecostal “vehicle” there is a break off every 20 years. Seems negative, yet it is also the very reason for rapid expansion worldwide. If someone wants to be an entrepreneur along with all the risks, then so be it. Have a good attitude. If someone wants to stay in the UPCI and further support the present vehicle, then so be it. Have a good attitude. Do your best to impact your world with the right motives: not fear, not intimidation, not control, not monetarily based, not “I’ll show you,” but with what you feel best spreads the gospel in humility.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jer 17:9

I think there is more self deception occuring on both sides of this issue than is understood or recognized. When Paul and Barnabas went their separate ways did God only bless one of them?

Further, when man tries to fulfill scripture it is usually disregarded by God. There were 14 chosen Apostles by my count. 1 committed suicide, 1 was chosen by Peter and the group and 1 was knocked down by a light from heaven. I only can find 12 foundations on whose names are the 12 Apostles in the picture of Bride of Christ in Rev. Who are the twelve God alone recognizes?

Come down from your thrones people. Your nothing but dust to be used as God desires.

Division: The act of dividing or separating into parts; also, the state of being divided. Someone or something that keeps individuals or object divided. Disunion, discord, variance and difference act in concert with division.

Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ: I hate to see the devil abuse our Apostolic brethren. I love this Apostolic truth and the people are being manipulated and misrepresented by the devil. It’s insignificant why the UPC is divided; and it’s not justifiable or spiritually legitimate. We should solely embrace the scriptures for our answer in this matter, because the word of God is clear. Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 1Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1Corinthians 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. The resolution in question is not the whole issue. The UPC have been divided for a long time over other deafening issues that I care not to mention at this time; however, when you drag nepotism, politics and culture in the house of God, this is the outcome (a house divided can’t stand). Regardless of the outcome, the false prophets (trinitarian) are sitting back laughing at us devour each another. The scripture expressly states, “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.” Furthermore, it doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong, we’ve completely lost our focus on the task we were put here to do, and that’s win souls for Christ, also edify and build on the Kingdom of God. In this new movement, there will be life long friends lost behind a few self-will men who haven’t sought The Lord for an answer. People might choose to be divided; however, God’s word will never be divided. Finally, the P.A.W. (Pentecostal Assemblies of the World) just had a big break up over “once saved-always saved” and “exclusive preaching at the conventions,” which is false teaching, and wrong (bad fellowship); there were over 30,000 people which decided to leave the organization. We must firmly stand on this Apostolic truth, and don’t give in to the wiles of the devil.

Maurice

I agree with some of the comments. Just because a resolution was passed giving pastors permission to advertise on tv DOES NOT mean "it's ok for everyone to go watch tv!" I also live in a big group of cities, and if advertising on tv means reaching thousands of more souls, then isn't that what is important? I think saints as a whole forget the reason why we are even here on this earth. it is not about who is more conservative or "holy". we are not here to nit pick about the evils of tv (if a man has a certain spirit in his heart and his pastor tells him tv is evil, he WILL find it else where. eg:internet, magazines etc.) Let's not forget "Our mission is fishin". It greives me that man would waste so much time arguing about trivial things when we have soo many lost souls! just think of the revival we could be having if all of these wasted energies were focused on the cause of winning souls!! God help us...

"the devil is extremely subtle in his approach in wrecking havoc in the church. The UPCI's decision to allow TV to be used as advertising tool to spread the gospel is going to lead the UCPI into worlidiness like we never would have imagined upc members will then begin to justify why TV isn't as bad as advertised" - posted by anonymous

You say this, when you are on the internet....I ask how is the web different from TV...How are billboards and radio commercials different from television advertising?

I read with interest Brother Haney's comparison of himself to Moses, Caleb, Joshua, and Nehemiah, and the Tulsa leaders as voices of disunity within Israel against these great men. The voices of disunity against Moses, Caleb, Joshua, and Nehemiah would be: Core against Moses, 10 doubting spies against Caleb, Egypt lovers against Joshua, Sanballet and Tobiah against Nehemiah. This comparisonism of the UPC and the WPF is not only faulty in logic it is downright unscriptural. Where is the high road of blessing your enemies and praying for them who despitefuly use you? Oh, or is it the Tulsa six are not real enemies so do not deserve a blessing, and they have not despitefully abused anyone so no prayers are offered for them?

Why is it that almost everyone thinks the UPC is the only organization God can use? Why is it that so many hate the Men of God who are forming the WPF?

My advice to the Tulsa Brethren is to remain silent about all these UPC attacks. They do not merit a response. Maintain the high ground and be men of faith and courage. Plan your perferred Apostolic direction and stick with it. Let the naysayers and gainsayers keep spouting off. You have a good reason and an excellent purpose before you. If you must be mocked, ridiculed, and blasphemed against: bear the scoldings and the casting out of your names as evil with dignity. Hold your heads up high and go into the sanctuary and lift up a praise with holy hands, without wrath, without doubting, and bless the Lord your God.

To the UPC railers and letter makers, why don't you get the message that is is "your" different views, the ones you contended for in supporting TV, that has divided the body. Take responsibility for violating your own mantra. Brother Haney you knew as you plotted to get this resoultion passed this divided body would occur. You knew this issue could cause a split. But you went right on and moved the TV issue to the dividing point. Shame on you! Stop trying to shame the good men and comparing them to the ungodly who opposed Moses, Joshua, Caleb, and Nehemiah. That was wrong to compare these men as such. I pray your repentance and forgiveness in the Lord.

Pastor G. Reckart
Tampa, Florida
Not affiliated with the UPC or WPF

AMEN Bro. Reckart could not have said it better myself.

Yes, I also was quite interested in the self comparisons to the Bible characters.

I also have traveled to many of the churches in the UPCI. I have found vast differences in standards and beliefs. There is nothing staunch or firm about holiness and doctrinal truth within the UPCI any longer.

The self deception and delusions of grandure of the leadership of the UPCI leads to attacks on good men that wish to narrow the variances that exist within the UPCI by forming a fellowship of their own.

I do not see where they are trying to change the plan of salvation or deminish the grace of God. The attacks by Bro. Haney are uncalled for.

You know this reminds me of jealousy. Brother Haney wants everyone to love the UPC ONLY! Anyone who loves the Brethren forming the WPF are openly ridiculed, mocked, put into categories of the ungodly, all to lead those they can influence to love only the UPC.

Well, the WPF has not been officially formed yet so how can we say we love it already more then the UPC? Really we cannot! But we are insulted by the nine letters circulating around the world from UPC ministers that we must hate the men forming the WPF and also hate the WPF as an alternative choice in Apostolic direction.

Anyone who cannot see the liberalism, the ecumenicalism, and the fall away from holiness standards in the UPC as a whole is blind. Some good Pastors are holding on. God bless them. But the majority of the rank and file are now allowing all sorts of worldliness. Where is the vision of the church without spot, blemish, wrinkle, or any such thing? Where is the vision of perfection for the body of Christ as we enter the endtimes? Where are the good and honest souls willing to "come out of her" and not be partakers of the sins of the whore system and her daughters? At one time the UPC was leading the way in separation and holiness. But no longer can we see or believe this. So, an alternative is needed and maybe the WPF is the answer. Maybe it is not. But stop the letters please. Stop being accusers of the Brethren because they seek a different preferred direction.

Jesus guide your Church, speak to your sons and daughters. We desire your way and not our own. We desire your holiness and not our unrighteousness. Forgive us of our sins and justify us with the power of the Holy Ghost within us.

Pastor G. Reckart
Tampa, Florida
Not affiliated with the UPC or WPF

You are finally right! Two wrongs don’t make a right. You were wrong to divide against any soul God calls a Brother. Not the UPCI calls a Brother. Don’t you dare call unclean what God has cleaned. You are wrong for wishing doom on anybody willing to carry this dear truth in unity with all. You’re the only one mentioning dividing the Body of Christ. (UPCI)

Try the Golden rule Love thy neighbor as thy self.

In closing of this letter allow me to draw from your own words again. “Right now, I must take the risk” to point out that the only thing greater then the United Pentecostal Church, is two United Pentecostal Churches. How could any member of this Great UPCI deny just how effective, powerful, inspiring, victorious, and yes UNITED Gods People are for the same cause. In this world where compromise is on every side there arises a people not willing to divide over issue but rather express the holiness of God in a Greater way. Why work to destroy them who are now laboring to preserve what we always had?

While we are destroying each other over outreach ideas and abilities which is for the same purpose of reaching souls. The Devil is running ramped through our Churches. if we must divide lets divide over doctrine, not causes.

David Smith is the Greatest destruction to truth~ yet not one watchmen on the wall has even bothered to sound and alarm……Strange Fire is being place in the censor. Sorry’ ness has already replace true repentance. The doctrine of the Romans road is bridging souls straight to hell from within the Body of Christ. Anybody have any idea where the fire is to come from to place in the censor for purification before you enter into the presence of all mighty God? I think it starts with a sacrifice of dying out. Anybody care that David Smith is teaching people how to repent by having the whole church repeat after him? He doesn’t repent for them, but rather with them. How many repented with you? The Bible make it clear in the last days that the anti christ will even be able to call fire down from heaven. How many of you great men stood on your platforms and counted as the Strange Fire began to fall…..Don’t take my word for it. Ask Randy Keys about the great fire falling. Do a Google search for UPCI David Smith and watch the fire fall over and over again and now count the souls deceived. The men in the Tulsa Six and UPCI have used David Smith. Men Get a Clue I’m a nobody who is as a filthy rag. Being saved by the divine influence of The Holy Ghost. Which is Grace in the New Testament. I’m following the influence of the Holy Ghost, not just Speaking in other tongues. Its not time to divide but rather find ways that respect everyone ways. Paul respected those he was with always. But let us a least unite to put out this Strange Fire and work to restore the Soul of David Smith. For without the Holy Ghost we have nothing to out reach for.

True unity begins one preacher at a time.

Your Brother in the Lord.

The subject of unity in our local churches is consistently stressed and preached as a key to revival and growth. I wholeheartedly agree. Saints must work in harmony and the pew must be in unity with the pulpit in order for a Church to operate the way God intended. It amazes me that the same preachers who stress this in their pulpits are not as concerned about striving for unity with their ministerial brethren. The Oneness Apostolic Church's all across America need to be united and come together like never before. I realize that are some minimum requirements that most of us will demand in order for us to consider a local church or fellowship part of the Apostolic Church. First of all, the church must believe in the oneness of God, rejecting the doctrine of the trinity. The church will preach the new birth experience as necessary for salvation. This includes repentance, baptism in Jesus Name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. The final component would be living a separated, Godly life, stressing Holiness as part of their daily lifestyle. I know there are many other beliefs and doctrines that will be part of the Apostolic church, but these are the fundamentals that most of us will agree are the trademarks of the Church.

It is imperative that those of us that are part of the church bind together like never before. A quick search on the internet brought up over fifty oneness organizations and fellowships in the United States. I am not so naïve to believe that there will ever be one all encompassing organization that every Apostolic Church belongs to. However, we all need to view all churches, ministers, and saints, regardless of affiliation, as part of the Church and body of Christ, as long as they are truly Apostolic. When the trumpet sounds, and the bride of Christ is raptured, I doubt there will be angels guarding the gate, asking preacher's for their "fellowship card" to see if they qualify for entrance. Whether UPC, A L J C, independent, etc…, God is looking for men and women who are Apostolic.

2007 was an interesting year for the Apostolic Church. The United Pentecostal Church voted in their General Conference to allow Churches to advertise on television. This issue divided many brethren the last few years, and the decision to allow it was celebrated by many and condemned by probably just as many. A quick search on the internet will produce many blogs and message boards from proponents and opponents of this issue. I am not here to celebrate the decision nor speak against it. As with many issues we face today, both sides no doubt had good points in their argument. I want to state up front that I did not vote on the issue, I am a minister in a UPCI Church, but am licensed with another Fellowship. There are those that believe that TV advertising for a local Church will have tremendous results. Only time will truly tell, but they will probably be disappointed. God has never relied on anything man made to spread the gospel, and He wasn’t waiting on an organization to pass a resolution so He could fulfill His purpose on this earth. That being said, if one soul is won to the Lord because they decided to visit a Church they saw on TV, it would be hard to argue with that soul on Judgment Day that it was a bad idea. This is what I mean about their being two sides to the issue. For those that were so against the resolution because it will be detrimental to the Church, I doubt this will happen either. There may be Churches that have already put ads on TV, but I haven’t heard about them. There will probably be very few Churches who utilize TV ads. For a lot of markets it is just too expensive and there are more attractive advertising opportunities for Churches, such as newspapers and mail outs. In my opinion, the opponents are probably more afraid of where this resolution will lead the UPC than the actual resolution itself. The bottom line, TV ads will probably not have a great impact on the Church either way. I do hate to see so many brethren divided so sharply on an issue that in ten years will be mostly forgotten. There is coming a convergence of Television and Internet, so much of what is being discussed will be irrelevant, we just don’t how long that will be. We need to make sure issues like this do not distract the Ministry from our purpose to reach a lost and dying world, but that will be in another post. Now more than ever, let there be Unity among Jesus name, One God, Holiness preachers.
God Bless,

The Young Minister’s Guide To “Getting Ahead” In The WWPF

1. Say something bad about Kenneth Haney, Wayne Huntley, or Allan Abbey.
(If you don’t actually know anything bad about these men, just improvise. The worst that can happen is being asked to preach extended revivals in Elk Grove or Durham. If another ambitious young minister beats you to slandering these men, you can always fall back to the traditionally-hated brethren: Tenney, Mangun, or Hodges)

2. Repeat loudly and often that the UPCI has voted to allow televisions in the home.
(Now, you are thinking that the vote was actually to allow outreach on television, not to allow televisions in the home. But never mind that, because … see, the leaders of the WWPF have led their churches to believe that the former is true, not the latter. It’s a delicate lie, but crucial. Be gentle.)

3. Keep mentioning how historic it all is!
(You will, of course, feel stupid doing this, especially if looking at your fellow attendees or perusing the Tulsa tourist guide. Alas, it must be done! Great men have great egos. Feed the beasts.

4. Rip your voice before you get there, for that camp-meeting sound!

5. Don’t criticize the “appointment” of executives.
(If you didn’t surrender your right to vote you wouldn’t be given the chance to led by such Great Leaders. In fact, they have split the offices among themselves like Roman soldiers dividing the seamed coat of a condemned man.)

6. Don’t wear designer clothes.
(Yes, the wives and children of the Great Leaders do, but they are an elite. Different rules. Don’t forget it!)

7. Exaggerate how mean and controlling you are to your saints, for their own good!
(It’s strange, but for some reason, this will produce an almost atavistic response from these guys. Go figure.)

8. Do not mention prescription drugs in a negative way.
(You never know which executive member is buying in Mexico.)

9. Never ask any of your appointed leaders if they have ever once allowed something (say,
wedding rings) for which they now place souls in hell.
(This is especially important if they have ever had daughters, because once the damsels leave they can get back to true holiness.)

10. Tell some dirty jokes.
(Admittedly, this is a strange one, but, interestingly, there is some link between cynical holiness-types and jokes that would offend a sailor. I don’t get it, but it should work for you.)

11. Talk big, do little.
(Remember it costs money to actually do anything.)

12. Don’t be intimidated by the tough talk.
(I know that’s easy for the rest of us to say, after all, we’re finished with what Johnny King, Danny Purdue, or Leon Frost thinks about anything. Thank you, God! However, it will be much harder for you. In any case,if you get overwhelmed, remember “holiness” is politics in this bunch, not separation from the world. If you cannot deal with the bluster though, go out afterwards with the music people from the church ofwhichever blusterer blustered loudest. This will renew you! They all partake in the evils of Hollywood and are secretly hacked-off about how small their world just became. WARNING: DO NOT CONTINUE HANGING OUT WITH THEM UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE A SUSPECT FAG! And there will be lots and lots of fag-bashing! That’s how you reach them! Didn’t you know that?)

13. Remember Father Time.
(The median age of your leaders is 69.75 years old. They all draw Social Security and Medicare. And they will all be dead before your new organization even buys property. This is great opportunity for the calculating young minister. Ye shall inherit the earth.)

14. Respect the 80% Red-Neck Factor
(If you went to college of any sort, DO NOT MENTION IT! Furthermore, if you ever find yourself being glared at suspiciously by an old fellow who appears to have bought his suit and his car batteries from the same store, quickly mutter something like: “Bless God, if the King James version was good enough for Paul and Silas, it’s good enough for me!” Or anything bad about Haney, Huntley, or Abbey
)
15. Say “Ditto” often. Or quote Rush Limbaugh on anything.
(No explanation needed. Sigh…)

16. Be careful if your wife has a personality.
(The only women in this group who get to be outgoing are the wives and daughters of the Great Leaders)

17. If what is said over the pulpit sounds too sweet, arrange a dinner invitation
(How? By saying something bad about Haney, Huntley, or Abbey! Duhhh… Anyway, it’s at dinner where you’ll hear the real bitterness ooze out.)

18. Avoid tribalism
(You will be tempted to join a “tribe.” Each Great Leader is surrounded by ducklings that compete to be more zealous in the popular issue. This is bad! Why? Because the smart money says that this tribalism will end in civil war. If you see this happening, swallow your pride and come back to the UPC. No, it isn’t perfect. And no, you won’t have a voice until you’re 62 years old. But if you want to love people, build a church, and get along with your brethren, it isn’t the worst thing.)

19. Avoid sympathy (If you are tempted to feel sorry for Haney, Huntley, Abbey, or other UPC figureheads, stop! These men
suffer nothing worse than a bit of stress which will be quickly soothed by their
a.) 6-figure incomes
b. impressive ministerial careers and
c.) the realization that their enemies have committed suicide and called it victory. If you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for the affected missionaries. They are the true
sacrifice-pawns. But don’t mention that. Instant death!)

20. Avoid Nate Wilson!
(Yes, you read that right! With so shocking an advisement, one must hasten to defend one’s logic. Consider these reasons prayerful:
a) Nate Wilson is the new liberal! Think about it. In Tulsa, he is T.F. Tenney.

b) If any minister in the UPCI had the media savvy, secular education, and holiness
credentials to effectively market via television, it was Nate Wilson. He could have done it
right. Ahhh… the heathen Greek said it well, “Whom the Gods would destroy, they first
they make mad…” Months before the fateful vote our fine hero suffered an electoral
defeat at the hands of Alan Abbey. Had he lost to another man he might have
maintained some modicum of objectivity. But Alan Abbey? Who of us is not blinded by
our vanities and hatreds? All Wilson had to do was wait, be magnanimous, and he was a
shoe-in for the next term of district superintendent. Ask anyone in the western district.
From that point, he would have been a contender for the General Superintendant once
his despised brother-in-law term-limited out. But Allan Abbey? It was utterly beneath
him… Or, to shamelessly mime Paradise Lost, “Better to reign in Tulsa, than serve in
Hazelwood.”

c) But he miscalculated his competitors. He thought that because he had successfully
manipulated Pentecom, he could manipulate WWPF. Thus the “offer” to build a
headquarters on his church land. Although Wilson plays a deep game and is used to
being the most ruthless guy at the table, he is choir boy beside the ruthlessness of the
Missouri brothers. Watch him fade away, or should I say, bleed out. Off’d by the ethics
chairman… gotta love that. You heard it here first…

d) He has no strategic allies. Read the list of the members of the WWPF. Who of them
would choose him over Johnny Godair? Who? In fact, in the whole outfit, who does he
control besides guys like Myles Young and John Shoemake? And the last time the Godair
gang heard those names they offered grim, dog-killing smiles.

e) He has placed his church in jeopardy. Both he and Myles had better pray that Bro.
Sargent is too naïve to realize that this is his once-in-a-lifetime chance to “ethically” start
his own church. Bro. Sargent could probably take 200+ members, rent a building, and
finally make 6-figures. And do it all based on “principle.” In any case, it probably won’t
happen: Slave-mentality is hard for anyone but the young to cast off. But … if it did …
that 60k-a-month mortgage on the church might get heavy. The McMansions might
even get sold, except for the fact that no one in California is buying.

f) Wilson fails the ruthlessness test. Consider the personality types that are making up this
WWPF movement. Consider what they respect. Consider the behind-the-scenes jockeying
that is taking place among competitive and egotistical men. It is a jungle. No intelligent
design here, we are talking Darwin, “red in tooth and claw.” And the king of the beasts is
Johnny Godair. This is a man who kicked his daughter and son-in-law to the curb when
they proved inferior leaders. Not sinners, not embarrassments; just inferior leaders!
Think about that! Reverse-nepotism! Admit that you are impressed! That is “Godfather”
type stuff. For every man who sacrifices his kids for the sake of his church, there is a
hundred who sacrifice the church for the sake of their kids. Now consider Wilson in
contrast to that kind of ruthlessness. He knows that people are not happy with Miles and
“executive pastor” Sheila. He knows that he is losing families. He knows the immense
financial risks he is carrying. But denial ain’t just a river…

g) Finally, Wilson didn’t birth this thing to sit at anyone’s feet. Which means, without
powerful allies (beloved by young, unproven ministries yet resented by peers and elders),
he fades away into being another lost and disgruntled independent. And it is all so sad
and ironic, because he really was the smartest guy in the room, or at least that’s what
his wife kept telling him. Oh how the mighty have fallen…

Dude, you are a true jerk

re: the "guide," you post all of THAT, and then sign it ANONYMOUSLY! aahh, the internet, haven for gutless wonders the world over!

I probably shouldn't admit this, but the last super long anonymous comment had me rollin.

I didn't get everything because I'm not privy to the personalities of people in organizational innerworkings (and don't care to), and maybe I feel this way about it because I just finished reading Catcher in the Rye.

It was funny, in a Holden Caulfieldish kind of way. "That camp meeting sound"? LOL.

re: names on the WPF flyer, i've heard second-hand, but from a highly reputable source, that one minister specifically requested that the WPF remove his name from their literature, but they have failed to do so.

for me, that calls into question, if not the motives of the WPF (which i choose to believe are genuine, even if i don't agree with them), then certainly their methods.

I am shocked by people who will throw slander at men they have probably never even met and then post it
as "anonymous." I wonder if there is a way to block anonymous postings of this nature? One of the postings was railing against a David Smith... I've never even heard of the guy, but be careful touching a man of God. Don't forget God will always take care of the pulpit. And then the posting on "getting ahead" in the WPF, this guy doesn't have a clue. Have the courage to stand behind your words if you're going to blast someone.

Chantell, thanks for seeing the humor. The majority does not seem to understand satire.

Who does this split affect the most? Those of my good friends on the mission field. I could really care less about what another brother thinks of the church I attend, our standards, whatever. Our business ought to be about winning the lost with this awesome message, first preached and practiced by the apostles. Peter and Paul were prime examples of what we would call today conservative and liberal. Which one was right? Both of them! The local church will remain autonomous to do as they are led by God, and the big shots will do as they feel led. I wish no ill will to the Tulsa group, and i wish them great revival. Now some might ask how can you wish them Godspeed. Easy, I want to extend to them the MERCY that they and the REST of us need now and in the immediate future. I know the origins of rings, holidays, make-up, dress, TV, whatever the holiness issues are: I am well versed in them after 25 years in Oneness. Your ornaments will not keep you from making in the end, but I promise all that OUR ATTITUDE will cause the metal detector in heaven to go off before rings and watches. A merciless, unforgiving, proud, uncompassionate, un-longsuffering, attitude will follow us to the Great White Throne (some men sins go on before them..). The same goes for the ultra liberals to whom there are no boundaries, for they will answer to God also. I don’t care for rock concert worship, overdressing, under dressing, but again, I don't go to that/those churches, or am responsible for that group. I am concerned about APOSTOLIC MINISTRY and DIVINE IMPARTATION in these last and evil days. As our world becomes more dangerous and unpredictable, Daniel says that "They that know their God shall be strong and do exploits". So to all my Apostolic Oneness brothers: I will stay with what one brother called "that backslidden organization" (I laughed aloud to myself...maybe I haven’t gone to enough CONFRENCES to see these heathens, but the folks in my district are trying to live for God, I think...) because I find that I need mercy, compassion, and patience, for I am but flesh. And If I can receive that from man, I am confident that my God is richer in his provisions than man..

To Anonymous who printed out the rules for the young preachers to get ahead,,,,,,Sir, you need to pray through. You are so full of venom, hate and wretchedness that you must be a verrry miserable human being. My heart goes out to you who thinks himself so wise to know the hearts and intents of others. These men you reviled were brethren of like precious faith just a few months ago but now are the scourge of the earth according to your ranting and raving. God have mercy on you! If anything would make me believe in the integrity of the WPF, it is people like you who are so bitter against them. You shoot yourself in the foot. Again I admonish you to pray through!!

The author of the young ministers guide has no bitterness or malice and does not know many of the men listed but enjoys controversial satire. It was all written from things the author read on various blogs and forums that is public knowledge. He may never come to God. Maybe more should be careful what they write in public websites. You never know what backsliders are reading.

You all have far too much time on your hands. Why don't you spend your time doing something worthwhile for the Kingdom of God, like teaching a Home Bible Study or inviting people to church or helping the widows....maybe praying (or even cleaning the flushes at the church).

Who are you to tell us we have too much time on our hands? You are hear reading and writing on the same thread. Maybe you should practice what you preach.

Wow, what next???? I would think whomever you support, just do what you do!!! No need for the beating each other up. I was not raised in this truth of ONE GOD, JESUS NAME BAPTISM,HOLINESS AND SEPARATION,HOLY GHOST INFILLING,"SPEAKING WITH TONGUES",MOVEMENT !!!! I THINK IT'S GREAT!!! I HAVE FRIENDS AND (NOW) LOVED ONES ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE. WE RESPECT EACH OTHER AS HUMAN BEINGS, NO MATTER WHAT WE STILL LOVE EACH OTHER!!!! IF I NEED HELP DON'T DOG ME, PRAY FOR ME AND LIKE WISE, I'LL PRAY FOR YOU!! THIS BLOG THING IS REALLY NOT GOOD FOR PEOPLE, WHO DON'T KNOW US(THE CHURCH), TO HAVE TO SEE .I LOVE MY ELDERS (BRO. HANEY,BRO JOHNNY GODAIR,BRO TINNEY, THE LIST GOES ON ,FOR BOTH ORGANIZATIONS)LET'S LET GOD DEAL AS HE WILL WITH THIS, NOT AS WE WILL!!!! AFTER ALL , WE DO SEEK HIS WILL ,RIGHT????

The young ministers list comments, are hilarious! It's amazing that some of you would be offended, by the comments. You were never offended when PSR/SAC like people were slicing and dicing men they've never met, such as Anthony Mangun, K.C. Haney (CLC for its worldliness), Wayne Huntley and many others.

Example: (true story)
A friend was golfing with his brother in law (who is a pastor) and this pastor was so negative on Anthony Mangun! Our friend asked him, have you ever met Pastor Mangun? his reply was NO! What a hypocrite! Needless to say, our friend ate his brother in laws lunch!
Whatever happend to the commandment, Do Not Bear FALSE WITNESS against your neighbor! Does that not apply to us today!
I'm proud to be a part of this organization, we must pray for our leadership and continue in the apostles doctrine.

We don't have a television, and we never want on, its our personal choice. The vote to advertise on TV is an avenue for us to further the gospel, again, television is now becoming obsolete.
We need to teach relationship with Jesus Christ and not only being Spirit filled but Spirit lead. By doing so we would love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourselves, Jesus said and that's what we need to DO.

I'm excited what God is doing in this end time.
Keep the faith.

I hope that none of these writers of the negative posting on either side of this issue are Minister of the Gospel or even worse really Pastors.If so they are a poor excuse for one.

I was raised in this and I knew Bro Clyde Haney (Bro Kenneth Haney father) , Bro David Gray and I don’t believe they would had voted for this resolution.

If a backslider came back to your church would he recognize your church.

My God is the same Yesterday, Today and forever.

Are we trying to limit God. Does God need our help. Have we reached the point that God can’t do it without our help.

God is capable of reaching the lost without TV. Why do we need debate something we know is wrong.

What is next, Are we going to advertise on a Beer can

Dan D

we got to stand for what is right.
I am praying for the worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship to grow.
I am also praying for the UPCI.
I want to go to church were they preach it hard.
the UPCI has got weak
GBU

Fellowship with other churches in our section had ceased long ago. Our youth, although trying to fit in, could not find any common ground with the youth of our fellow churches. If you disagree with anyone you are immediately labeled as "mean", "jealous", or "adverse to technology".

It's as simple as this. I do not believe the same as the majority of the United Pentecostal Church. Although I have been raised in it for my entire life, I feel no emotional attachment to the U.P.C. I simply do not believe as they do now.

Please quit doing what you are accusing others of doing. Quit making fun of or accusing the men who have chosen to fellowship with others who believe as they do. You have a right to continue as you are. I do not feel as if we have any responsibility to an organization. Our devotion is to God, and we simply live our lives for him day by day. This is not a decision we have made against anyone, but it is a decision we have made to be true what we first believed.

Kristi

The propose of the new fellowship is that in years past the difference between standards from one UPC church to another was little. Now the difference is great. Some of the churches like ours have kept to the old ways. Yet we have UPC churches close by that look like they belong to any OTHER type of church, just not UPC, Apostolic Jesus Name. The Bible taught us to be separate. We should not look like every other Tom, Dick and Harry’s Church.

As we all have read “he is the same yesterday, today and forever”.

If we really believe that then why should our standards change?

Are we calling UPC’s minister that have preached for the last 50 years liers.
Standards should not change, If he is the same yesterday, today and forever. There is a reason those old time men of God preached keeping strong standards. They would had not voted that resolution in.

Are we going to fall pray to the evils that has hit every other denomination. No we are different; We have the power of his name on our side.

TV has no place in our homes or churches even as videos.

We have always had good church. But I believe our churches will see the power of God like we have not seen in a long time because we are purifying our churches to be involved in a fellowship of like minded people of god. That is not afraid to stand up for God and the standards he want us to live by. We believe God does not need our help. We with his guidance can reach the lost. We don’t need to worry whether a backslider would recognize our church.

Can you say that or has your church allowed things to creep in that used to be preached against.

God has not changed – have you

Dan’D

I'm going to try and pull my thoughts together into something coherent, so bear with me. I'm not sure how it will be received, but I would like to touch on several previous comments and some made by those high in the organization.

First, we understand and accept that the salvation plan of the New Testament is pretty much summed up by Peter's statements in Acts 2:38, declaring that repentance, baptism in Jesus name and receiving the Holy Ghost is pretty much followed throughout the new testament. That is what links us to apostolic doctrine that was later corrupted by elements that moved into the body after the death of the apostles.

Second, not every form of division and debate is of the devil. Simply put, if you will move past Acts 2, you will see that the early church had its share of debate. For those who know me, you know I've continued in apostolic tradition throughout my life.

In Acts 3 after the initial out-pouring of the Holy Ghost, the church was attacked and called into question by the then-standing, ruling religious power in Jerusalem, brought before the Annas, the high priest and Caiaphas, John, Alexander and the families related to the high priest. Understand this is the bunch who stood before Pilate and demanded Christ's death just over a month before. The outward debate did not stop the church from growing. Peter preached to them on the day of Pentecost, calling them murderers. Note, he's still talking to the high priest, for all you cats that don't believe you can biblically withstand someone who is in FALSE DOCTRINE, HERESY or SIN, because of their age or position. There is a vast gulf between rebuke and railing or reviling someone. Don't think you won't be put out of an assembly or an organizations if you stand for God's word...even in Pentecost.

Third, confusion and sin inside the body will be dealt with by God. Annanias and Sapphira conspired to lie to Peter about the land they sold and the amount. God dealt with it and great fear fell on the church and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles, because the respect and fear of God was again dominant in the church. We worry so much about people leaving and going. For those of you who remember GC in the 90's, we lost a lot of men and women who walked up and laid their licenses on the altar and walked out.

Fourth, in Acts 10-11 the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost in the house of Cornelius the Jews at first rejoiced that the Gentiles had also received the Holy Ghost, but by Acts 15, certain converted Pharisees tried to subvert the Gentiles by telling them they had to keep the law of Moses and be circumcised to be save. This sparked a major debate in the church and ended up with Peter confronting them and settling the debate before the church elders in Acts 15:14-29. I mention this, because I have recently had this same debate in a church. The apostles settled this fight a long time ago. No need to rehash it with the HRM crowd. We see at the end of the chapter that Paul and Barnabas had such a contention among them over John Mark going with them that they parted company. That wasn't over a doctrine, just a man! It was all in God's will though as we see Paul chose Silas as a companion and continued on his journey. Not all contention is bad.

Fifth and finally, in Galatians 2, the Paul withstood Peter to his face BEFORE ALL because he was to be blamed. Even though Paul and Peter were by that time established apostles, one to the Gentiles and one to the Jews, Paul was still wise enough to know Peter was the spokesperson for the church as a whole, selected by Christ himself. If you read the entire chapter, it gives a lot of insite as to respect of persons and people seeming to be in high positions. Do a study on verse 5. They did not give the men place for even an hour...why? Because of the gospel. Paul even documented that Barnabas was carried away by their dissimulation.

Debate is in the blood of the apostolic church, whether we want to accept it or not. Jesus braided a whip and laid into the money changers in the temple, but we 3rd and 4th generation apostolics seem to think that anything verbalized beyond a whisper is of the devil. Our views on leadership and what is leadership are so skewed that we have no concept of apostolic order. Paul's version of "Let all things be done decently and in order," had NOTHING to do with PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE and definitely didn't have a flip to do with a social program created by men.

These men were the head honchos of the early Apostolic church of the first age. Yet we want to critique good men of God in our generation for leaving an organization or taking a stand? How apostolic we are.... Debate is debate. Opinion is opinion. The last thing we need is to strike out verbally against God's anointed and slander them as renegades, rebels and rogues, as some in leadership roles of the UPCI have done with those who left them. The entire early church was marked with those titles. I've even debated on the UPCI site about this very subject.

Jesus said in the sermon on the mount that we were blessed when men withdrew from us, or cast out our name as evil, or drove us from the synagogues. He stated he would send us prophets, wise men and scribes and some they would persecute, kill and cast out of the synagogues. Maybe I'm just an ignorant hick, but I don't think he meant the city hall when he said synagogues. I think the hint was they would kick some of us out of the church. And that would imply that someone in "authority" did the kicking!

And don't think I'm being hateful about any of this. I'm not. I was rebuked on this very site a year ago by a UPCI evangelist who told me that I was wrong and no one would leave the UPC. Amazing what God will confirm in a year. And don't bother asking if I'm for or against television. I'm simply for Jesus. He is where my allegiance lies.

We need to rethink where the spiritual authority of our ministries lies and that will destroy much of the reason for debate. Misguided thinking even among leaders has always been the cause of strife in organizations. Jesus in Matt. 20:25-28, told his disciples that the ministry will not bear rule over the church like the leaders in the gentile nations. I think we missed it in many aspects when we started putting words to paper in a manual that revises every few years, and start labeling men as sinners who are taking stands for their convictions even in the face of leaders they love who they feel are in error. I've been put in that place many times. God has always called the shots and dealt with it. I think he will in this situation too.

May God bless the ministers of the UPC and the WPF and bring them to unity as brethren, despite their minor philosophical differences. If they don't, this is only going to be the first of many splits and fractures. God is going to make us learn the lesson of unity in the body.

When Bro. Haney seen the 50 -50 split of those for and against T.V. Advertising he could have stopped it right there. It could have been tabled seeing it caused so much division, but NO! He said "Let it go". He is the one that cause this. My pastor went to the meeting in Tulsa to just check things out. It was all positives. He said it is the first time in 15 years that he has heard righteousness & Holiness preached at a conference level the way it was preached there. As of right now we are going to wait and see what comes of all of it. We may go, we may not. If we as a body of believers allow the world to creep into our homes & put his foot in our doors, it just a matter of time till it moves in. I pray that the UPC as a whole would seek God on their faces in repentance and allow the Holy Ghost to show them the error of their ways and this T.V. advertising comes to not for if it does not other things will be welcomed into lives of great men & women of God. We must build altars and break up our fallow ground so that seeds of righteousness and holiness can bring forth the precious fruit to reach the lost souls in this world. Whatever entertains instructs. Please be vigilant and press forward unto holiness and allow not the temptation of the world to enter in. My fellowlabors we can win this world if we have the desire & passion to do so. T.V. is not the answer. Preaching & teaching is the answer to this lost and dieing world. We can do it without worldly influence Bro & Sis’s.
“If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” John 15:19

I think the UPC is about 30 years too late for TV. If they were going to use TV as an outreach, they should have done so a long time ago, before the so called "televangelists" of the 80's (and today) ruined the public's perception of Christianity. I'm afraid that non-religious people will simply lump the UPC in the same pot with the rest of the religious garbage on TV these days. It's a shame that the television airwaves have been dominated by false preachers begging for money, & that they have done so in the name of Christ. In my opinion, these TV preachers like Robert Tilton, Don Stewart, Peter Popoff, etc., etc., etc., are atheists in the first place, because no one who actually believes in God could do the things these guys do & feel justified. Had the UPC stepped up & led the way 30 years ago, & set the standard on TV, perhaps people would have a different opinion of religion & Christianity today. They had the best preaching, singing, & overall talent, hands down. Instead, the UPC has preached against technology instead of content for all these years, while false preachers have made a mockery & joke of Christianity. I think the UPC is simply too late. The world isn't going to necessarily distinguish the UPC from other religious groups. I'm not saying, however, that the UPC is wrong for using TV as an outreach, but consider this; if you were mining for diamonds or gold, it would be just as important to know what the fake looks like, because this simply makes the real thing stand out all the more once you find it. Not being on TV always made the UPC stand out in my opinion - it made them shine. However, perhaps the world will "feel" a difference when they see the UPC on TV. As for the WPF, it's interesting to note that Johnny Godair preached for years & years how every split was of the devil, yet is at the head of this split. The United Pentecostal Church needs to be just that - united. I hate to see this division that Satan is causing.

I think the UPC is about 30 years too late for TV. If they were going to use TV as an outreach, they should have done so a long time ago, before the so called "televangelists" of the 80's (and today) ruined the public's perception of Christianity. I'm afraid that non-religious people will simply lump the UPC in the same pot with the rest of the religious garbage on TV these days. It's a shame that the television airwaves have been dominated by false preachers begging for money, & that they have done so in the name of Christ. In my opinion, these TV preachers like Robert Tilton, Don Stewart, Peter Popoff, etc., etc., etc., are atheists in the first place, because no one who actually believes in God could do the things these guys do & feel justified. Had the UPC stepped up & led the way 30 years ago, & set the standard on TV, perhaps people would have a different opinion of religion & Christianity today. They had the best preaching, singing, & overall talent, hands down. Instead, the UPC has preached against technology instead of content for all these years, while false preachers have made a mockery & joke of Christianity. I think the UPC is simply too late. The world isn't going to necessarily distinguish the UPC from other religious groups. I'm not saying, however, that the UPC is wrong for using TV as an outreach, but consider this; if you were mining for diamonds or gold, it would be just as important to know what the fake looks like, because this simply makes the real thing stand out all the more once you find it. Not being on TV always made the UPC stand out in my opinion - it made them shine. However, perhaps the world will "feel" a difference when they see the UPC on TV. As for the WPF, it's interesting to note that Johnny Godair preached for years & years how every split was of the devil, yet is at the head of this split. The United Pentecostal Church needs to be just that - united. I hate to see this division that Satan is causing.

When I found out that the UPC had passed the resolution on TV, I felt like someone had punched me in the gut. I could not believe that an organization that I had grown up with and loved since I was a child had done something so totally against what they had stood for for so long. That was a basic standard preached from the pulpit from the beginning. My heart breaks to think of the churches that will follow in the path that these men have cleared. You can call it what you want to but, if it was sin one year ago, ten years ago, fifty years ago, IT IS STILL SIN TODAY!!!!!!! I can only pray that there will be some sincere people in a bunch of churches who will stand up and say "I don't want to go to hell no matter what you say is o.k. I'm still gonna stand for truth!!!!"

The early New Testament Church began without a Oneness
Organization as we know of "them" today. Organization serves its purpose in working collectively to win the lost. After reading many of these messages I think we all need to ask God to give all of us a
right spirit and a clean heart. I believe the PAW was the first Oneness group. But from the PAW came others who had a part in forming another organization. And this has been repeated from time to time. No one has a monopoly on the preaching of the gospel. In the time of Jesus one of his apostles made a statement about one
casting out devils and Jesus said to "forbid him not, he that is not against us is for us." If some brethren want to leave the UPC and form another organization, if it's done with the right motives, etc. then there is nothing wrong with it. And if others wish to remain in the UPC that is fine too. And if down the road some choose to leave the WPF to form another organization that is fine too, as long as people have the right spirit and attitude and THE APOSTLES DOCTRINE is the message they will be preaching. And the brethren who have been independent all their lives and never been a part of a Oneness Organization, God bless them too, as long as they
have a right spirit and attitude and are preaching the same message.
Jesus prayed in John 17 that his follower would all be ONE. It does not matter which APOSTOLIC PENTECOSTAL organization you belong to as long as the truth is being preached, you have love in your heart for the brethren, and your spirit is right. God help all of us to truly be seen by others as the true disciples of Jesus because we have love one for another. God bless all of you.

shuuuut uuuuppppppp!!!!!

shut up!!!!!!!!!!!

I'M A 5TH GENERATION ON MY MOM'S SIDE AND A 4TH GENERATION ON MY DAD'S SIDE OF THIS GREAT AND ONLY TRUTH WHICH IS ACTS 2:38. SO MY KNOWLEDGE OF UPCI,AMF AND NOW WPF IS EXTENSIVE. BOTH MY PARENTS WERE RAISED IN UPC IN THEIR CHILDHOOD YEARS AND YEARS LATER WHEN THEY WERE MARRIED AND I WAS BORN MY MOTHER WAS GOING TO BRO. VERBAL BEAN'S MOTHER'S CHURCH IN GREENS BAYOU, TEXAS. SOME YEARS LATER AFTER BRO. BEAN BECAME PASTOR, WE MOVED BACK THERE UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP AND EVEN THEN IN 1967 JUST BEFORE AMF STARTED UP (I WAS 11 YEARS OLD) BRO. BEAN WOULD PREACH ABOUT THE FUTURE OF JESUS NAME PEOPLE AND PREACHERS AND THEIR CHURCHES LOOSING A GRIP ON HOLINESS AND PRAYER AND FASTING. HIS PROPHECTIC PREACHING HAS COME TO PASS!!! ALOT OF ORGANIZATIONAL PREACHERS OF TODAY SAY THEY STAND AGAINST ISSUES WHEN REALLY THEY DON'T ENFORCE IT IN THEIR OWN CHURCHES. WEDDING RINGS HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN UNRESOLVED STANDARD IN UPC, ALOT OF NORTHERN CHURCHES AND THOSE IN CALIFORNIA HAVE NEVER REALIZED THAT THE WEARING OF WEDDING RINGS ORIGINATED FROM THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. A RING ON THE FINGER IS NO DIFFERENT THAN A RING IN THE NOSE OR EAR OR ELSEWHERE TO GOD. NOW IT'S EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK. AT WORK I HAVE SINNERS NOW WHEN THEY ASK ME IF I HAD SEEN A CERTAIN PROGRAM ON T.V. AND I LET THEM KNOW THAT AS A APOSTOLIC PENTECOSTAL I FEEL IT WRONG TO HAVE A T.V. IN MY HOME - THEY LOOK AT ME IN SURPRISE AND INFORM ME THAT OF ALL THE PENTECOSTALS THEY KNOW OF THAT EVERYONE HAS A T.V. AND HAS FOR YEARS. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TAUGHT TO RESPECT THE MINISTRY AND I WOULD NEVER CALL OUT ANY PREACHERS'
NAME FOR FEAR OF GOD'S WRATH ACCORDING TO HIS WORD. BUT I WILL SAY THAT ALOT OF PREACHERS NOW DAYS WANT THE BIG NUMBER OF ATTENDANCE WHICH INCLUDES TITHING AND EVEN THO THEY MAY CAN SAY THEY AREN'T HIRED BY A BOARD FROM THE CHURCH THEY STILL ARE A "HIRELING" BECAUSE THEY WON'T PREACH THE MESSAGE LIKE THEY USE TO FOR FEAR OF LOOSING BIG TITHE PAYERS. OH I'LL GET AMENS FROM THOSE WHO STILL BELIEVE IT THE "STRAIGHT AND NARROW" BUT THOSE WHO HAVE BECOME ACCUSTOMED TO THE MODERN DAY MESSAGE OF "NOW YOU AREN'T SUPPOSE TO JUDGE BECAUSE GOD IS THE ONLY JUDGE" AND "GOD IS LOVE" THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH MOST ONENESS CHURCHES TODAY. TICKLE THE SAINTS EARS TO WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR AND DON'T STEP ON ANYONE'S TOES OR THEY WON'T COME BACK. JESUS NAME PREACHERS NEED TO "GET BACK TO BASICS"!!! ORGANIZATONS ARE MAN MADE. I'M NOT SAYING IT'S WRONG TO BELONG TO A ORGANIZATION. THE MAIN THING IS WHEN GOD COMES BACK FOR HIS CHURCH - THERE WILL BE SAINTS IN LOOSE CHURCHES AND STRONG CHURCHES THAT WILL BE CAUGHT UP TO MEET HIM AND SADLY THERE WILL BE LUKE-WARM AND BACKSLIDDEN AND HYPOCRITES AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST CHURCH-TROUBLE MAKERS THAT WILL BE LEFT ON THE CHURCH PEWS IN LOOSE CHURCHES AN STRONG CHURCHES. THE SAME WITH THE MINISTRY.

In regard to the "Young Ministers Guide" I could not agree more that your satire is unfortunately almost too truthful. It is funny, but sad that so much truth exists within it. How many ministers UPC, WWPF, and otherwise have you seen follow the very path described? And yes, I've also seen their families live a separate standard than they hold up for everyone else. This is what causes so much trouble for us when witnessing to people. So many people have seen this before. And finally, why does there need to be all of this division within Pentecostalism? Sadly, it has been here all along. I'm not calling anybody right or wrong, but rather than attempt to create division, the men of the WWPF should be looking for resolution within the UPC. We are only as united as Pentecostals as we try to be. These men should only do this with nearly unanimous votes from their congregation. If men are leading others away from an organization that upholds transparency and accountability for the wrong reasons, they will be accountable in the end.

First of all UPCI is not the only "organization" and yes that is all it is, is an organization, going to Heaven, even though that is what is preached in UPC churches. My husband and I just recently left a UPC church to attend another church (NON UPC)because it was becoming so much of a "cult" that we did not want to drink the kool-aid AT ALL! It scares us as we look back at things and how controlling the preacher was/IS and no we are not rebellious. In fact the preacher is on the committees for the new "organization." The way I look at things who cares if there is a split, isn't the ultimate goal to "save souls?" I think all of you people that are 3rd, 4th, 5th generation blah blah need to get off your high horses and come back to the earth we live in and realize you are not holier than though. I have been there and done that and I will take my chances sitting on a Baptist pew before going back to another "pentecostal" church. There are more hypocrits on those pews and back stabbers than outside the walls! Am I venting, probably. You people are so crazy about going on and on about the great split so now I ask the question "Who is going to Heaven, UPCI or Worldwide fellowship people?" oh my, God is going to have to choose now. Get a life people!
As for the person that talks about the wedding rings, I really don't think God is going to send someone to Hell for wearing a ring. Again, get a life. I hope when you witness to people you don't blab all the "rules" out before they fall in love with Jesus and love them for who they are and not what you can turn them into! I think that is the least of God's worrys and who are you to judge and say what God may think about rings? Let me ask you this have you spent more than $75.00 on an outfit, hmmm what does the bible say about costly apparel, a sin is a sin, no matter what it is. (not that wearing a wedding ring is a sin). May God help you all!!

Rose in Cullman Alabama!!

I think the UPC is about 30 years too late for TV. If they were going to use TV as an outreach, they should have done so a long time ago, before the so called "televangelists" of the 80's (and today) ruined the public's perception of Christianity. I'm afraid that non-religious people will simply lump the UPC in the same pot with the rest of the religious garbage on TV these days. It's a shame that the television airwaves have been dominated by false preachers begging for money, & that they have done so in the name of Christ. In my opinion, these TV preachers like Robert Tilton, Don Stewart, Peter Popoff, etc., etc., etc., are atheists in the first place, because no one who actually believes in God could do the things these guys do & feel justified. Had the UPC stepped up & led the way 30 years ago, & set the standard on TV, perhaps people would have a different opinion of religion & Christianity today. They had the best preaching, singing, & overall talent, hands down. Instead, the UPC has preached against technology instead of content for all these years, while false preachers have made a mockery & joke of Christianity. I think the UPC is simply too late. The world isn't going to necessarily distinguish the UPC from other religious groups. I'm not saying, however, that the UPC is wrong for using TV as an outreach, but consider this; if you were mining for diamonds or gold, it would be just as important to know what the fake looks like, because this simply makes the real thing stand out all the more once you find it. Not being on TV always made the UPC stand out in my opinion - it made them shine. However, perhaps the world will "feel" a difference when they see the UPC on TV. As for the WPF, it's interesting to note that Johnny Godair preached for years & years how every split was of the devil, yet is at the head of this split. The United Pentecostal Church needs to be just that - united. I hate to see this division that Satan is causing.

ROSE, YOUR PROBLEM IS THAT IF YOU WOULD PRAY AND BE HUMBLE AS A SAINT LIKE YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO THEN PENTECOST WOULDN'T SEEM LIKE A CULT TO YOU. A PREACHER IS THE SHEPARD OF THE FLOCK WHICH YOU CAN'T BE SAVED WITHOUT A PREACHER. AND ALSO A RING IS JEWLERY AND THE BIBLE SPEAKS AGAINST THE WEARING OF GOLD AND SILVER. ALSO NO I DON'T SPEND ALOT OF MONEY ON "COSTLY ARRAY" I HARDLY EVER GO SHOPPING FOR CLOTHING AND WHEN I DO - I DON'T SPEND ALOT OF MONEY ON EACH ITEM. ALSO I DON'T CONSIDER MYSELF HOLIER THAN THOU. I JUST BELIEVE IT THE OLD FASHION WAY LIKE IT WAS YEARS AGO. ALSO THERE IS MORE THAN UPC OR WWPF - THERE IS MANY OTHER ONENESS ORGANIZATIONS THAT PREACH THE TRUTH AND MANY ONENESS CHURCHES THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN AFFILIATED WITH ANY ORGANIZATION. GOD DOESN'T HAVE TO CHOOSE BECAUSE WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE ASSOCIATED WITH A ONENESS ORGANIZATION DOESN'T MATTER TO GOD - BUT WHAT DOES MATTER TO HIM IS "DO YOU HAVE THE SAME SPIRIT THAT ABIDED IN CHRIST?" AND THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE THAT IS TO BE PRAYFUL AND HAVE A REPENTANT SPIRIT. THE PROBLEM WITH ALOT OF JESUS NAME PEOPLE IS THEY ARE SO CAUGHT UP IN EVERY DAY-TO-DAY THINGS THAT THEY DON'T SPEND TIME IN PRAYER TO KEEP THE RENEWAL OF THE HOLY GHOST BUBBLING IN THEIR SOUL. FROM THE SOUND OF YOU WITH YOUR ACQUISATIONS OF PENTECOST BEING A CULT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU REFUSE TO SUBMIT TO A PASTOR'S GUIDANCE AND AUTHORITY. THE PREACHER IS THE ONE GOD ORDAINS AND SETS OVER HIS PEOPLE SO THEY CAN BE SAVED. YOUR COMMENT THAT "YOU'LL TAKE YOUR CHANCES AND SIT ON A BAPTIST PEW" IS SCARY. I WOULD NEVER MAKE A CHOICE AND SAY "I'LL TAKE MY CHANCES". YOU EVIDENTLY NEVER CAME TO THE REALIZATION OF THE TRUTH AND HAD IT REALLY EMBEDDED IN YOUR SOUL AND MIND. IT'S HEAVEN OR HELL - WHICH DO YOU CHOOSE?

My husband and I have come to the realization of truth and that is why we don't attend a Pentecostal church! We do chose Heaven and still believe in oneness.
I do chose Heaven and yes my husband and I did submit and such a typical comment from a typical pentecostal saying someone didn't submit. Anyway may God bless your soul and have mercy on each one of you! You have been so brainwashed I will waste no more time on any thing else with this matter and wash my hands of it all! God Bless!
R

Here is a study for George Barna:

Of all the ministers that have given themselves over to adultery

HOW MANY OF THEM WERE LEGAILISTIC, NON WEDDING RING WEARERS?


(I dont use the term "fallen" you can fall off a ladder or a roof and its an accident, committing adultery is not however accidental)

They are hard on non Biblical issues such as proclaiming to the world (That I might add is full of people shacking up) that they are proudly married, but can commit adultery. Doesnt make sense, the only reason that my wife and I dont wear one is because of our weaker legalistic brethren that can't handle someone else not fitting into their mold.
While attending a wedding Saturday night, a deaf mute couple made signs with the left ring finger asking us if we were married, this was the 4th time in our ministry as a married couple that we felt embarrased because our marriage relation was in question. I am going to start wearing it.

"Let not your good be evil spoken of" Romans 14:16.

Yes I am a UPCI mininster. I am a third generation believer but a first generation seeker!!!!!!!!
Robert

Good for you! Wearing a wedding ring sure does eliminate a lot of questions!

R

WEARING A WEDDING RING DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING TO ANYBODY BECAUSE MOST OF THOSE WHO COMMIT ADULTERY ARE WEDDING RING WEARERS. ALL OF YOU ARE GETTING AWAY FROM WHAT THE BIBLE SPEAKS OF NOT WEARING OF GOLD AND SILVER. YOU CAN'T IGNORE THE BIBLE AND DO WHAT YOU WANT. THAT IS THE SCRIPTURE AGAINST JEWELRY. AND ROSE IF YOU WERE TRULY SUBMITTED TO YOUR PASTOR THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE FALLEN OUT. BELIEVE ME I WILL RESPOND EVERY TIME ANYONE HAS A NEGATIVE COMMENT AGAINST TRUTH.

How many ring wearing adulterers (ministers) can you name?

I could name more than a dozen.

Where in the Bible does it say anything against rings or facial hair?

AND ROSE IF YOU WERE TRULY SUBMITTED TO YOUR PASTOR THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE FALLEN OUT. BELIEVE ME I WILL RESPOND EVERY TIME ANYONE HAS A NEGATIVE COMMENT AGAINST TRUTH.


Submission has a broad definition and anytime a minister tries to dictate personal lives with his personal convictions one has the right to decide if that church is the best place to congregate.
No one is obligated to sit under anyone's leadership.
Are you the moderator/administrator of this sight? Who gave you the monolply on truth or the right to interpret it as you see fit? I bet there are a lot of skeletons in your closet, yet you act all Holy.
Self righteousness and pride are the 2 biggest sins in the UPCI.

There is a lost and dying world that need the TRUTH!!! QUIT FUSSING ABOUT THESE ISSUES AND START REACHING THE WORLD WITH THE TRUTH!

amen, well said!

What was that one verse that said about which organization to join and commit to? I cant think of it off hand....It said about UPC...or was it PAW?...or was it COLJC?....I dont know???

Seriously guys we really need to get back to whats important here......PEOPLE!! If these gentlemen want to leave and they end up baptizing 200,000 people over the next 20 years and they get the Holy Ghost..........hold on for this.....and Jesus comes... We're all gonna be greeting each other in heaven;)

Isnt it going to be awkward standing in front of all the tongue talking Jesus name preaching saints of God who come under various org. titles?

Or do we all go to different heavens and meet up with different Lords?

Preach what you believe and FELLOWSHIP with all who KNOW HIM!!

Oh and I think you might even shake hands with a few men in goatees up there on streets of gold;) Just a thought.

James Santiago PA

To Rose:
I just finished reading all of that and I must say I am saddened. I agree with you about self righteous and pride being prominent in the UPC but quite frankly its prominent in mankind as a whole. I know I myself have looked down on my share of people and Im sure many others have. But I am not a x generation anything. I was raised by a pretty big crime family and my brother and I left the "thug life" when I was 14 and he was 19. We ended up bringing many of our family members with us to church. Since then our lives have been changed and we are both ministers for the Lord. The Lord has confirmed this apostolic message to us many times. I have been a victim of judgment and legalism WITHIN THE UPC and could have walked out LONG AGO but what would that have solved? The message is still good and the spirit is still pouring out so what should we do? If all the people that left would have STAYED maybe we would have the majority and be able to help bring back the LOVE of Christ and not just the judgment.

I have been used in the gifts of the Spirit and God has spoken to me on quite few occasions about things that have come to pass......but IF I HAVE NOT LOVE I am nothing. Too many of our preachers and ministers are showing off Gods gifts and forgetting what they were given to us for. To DEMONSTRATE LOVE. If anything Rose join those of us that want to spread Gods love istead of turning completely against us. I dont blame you for not trusting us, but dont throw the baby out with the bath water. The message is scripture (Acts 2:38) the Spirit is working and God is still calling so dont pass up a good thing just because the frailty of man is revealed to you.

Sorry such a long message:)

James Santiago

I think rose needs to not look at man but to God, men will let you down but God no never! she needs to fall in love with Jesus Christ all over again, Rose when was the last time you humbled yourself at an alter and said God i dont understand but you do. Rose for your sake fall back in love with Jesus Christ and renew yourself, youll see things differently from there on out. i promise. God Bless Rose..

petty,petty.i left the upc 10 years ago and pray for y'all.theres an old hymn that i love 'turn your eyes upon Jesus'

Arrogance is sin and a proud look God will withstand, if it looks like and sounds like a worldly Church it is(Think about it). Any new convert will tell you DON’T let Trinitarian preachers or singers behind GODS Pulpit! Thank God for men who will stand with the new convert and the established saint that still believes that God has A PEOPLE called by his NAME!

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. II Chronicles 7:14

This is exactly what the devil wants...this is the reaction he was looking for...shame on us all for giving it to him...........

Happy Valentine's Day!

(I was hoping to spread a little love on this lovelorn comments section.)

EVERYBODY PLEASE GET ON WITH YOUR BUSINESS.....

PLEASE IT SEEMS EVERYONE HAS HAD THEIR SAY,SO LETS GET ON WITH THE KINGS BUSINESS, LETS GO HAVE REVIVAL IN OUR CHURCHES!!!!!!!!!

Well eveyone says a mouthfull. I am a sinner saved by grace. I don't have a sermon to preach. What I do have is conviction and more importantly a considerable track record as wretched sinner. I have more real world television, internet and radio experience with sin than I care to remember. Yes... you can find sin in written media, radio, and certainly the internet. I currently discourage my friends and family from getting too involved in ANY of it. Why? Because God delivered me from the filth of Hell and this current world two years ago. I challenge anyone here or anywhere else to show me what is good, moral, and just to the edification of my soul on television. If you say you don't want to watch it, let me prophecy to you now and write this down: You will. Eternity is a long time folks. Is Hell still hot? Why would anyone even consider the road to justification. Don't you realize the consequences of embracing and hoping to control Satan's greatest deceiver? I don't seek unity with a group to seek my own salvation. I've got a group on the other side and a group about to go, praise God! No delegate from any organization will stand with me in judgement to plead my case. Thank God I found a pastor that believes the book when it said: "Follow peace with all men, and HOLINESS, without which no man shall see the Lord:"

Find me anything Holy on television and I'll eat my words. I spent a lifetime watching it, you won't find it. More importantly you are greatly deceived if you say you won't watch it when your advertisement is there. Conviction, that's what will draw the sin sick in your cities. It's the only thing that saved me and when I was looking for help, it wasn't on T.V. The world wants clear cut differences, they are smarter than you think they are. Don't blend.

Amen Amen Amen Amen the sound and voice of a blood bought born again one God Jesus name Holy Ghost filled believer that loves God and his Holiness not ours but its Gods Holiness that teaches set no evil thing before your. I think all you brethren who are so busy doing the work of God and need television as another tool need to go back to that Old Landmark and remember what got you this far, and I have a good spirit when I said that I wont get a bad one if I say it again. Remember your landmark because if you don’t most likely most likely your babies will never experience what you did or what has kept thus far.

The internet, cell phones, etc.,always get brought in to the TV subject. There is so much difference,its like night and day.most of us can see its not the physical TV setting in our room thats bad.Its the networks "owning" the airwaves.propagating their beliefs and pushing their "doctrine" to every individual that will believe it!the "news" is the worst. bringing us one sided stories about what is supposedly going on in the world.im not saying the internet is godly by any means,but mainstream tv is anti-god and against everything "the church" stands for.why entertain ourself with their propaganda? and it is "the church" not "the organization".there are many more apostolics in the world than just UPCI.all we have to do to be saved is believe , receive and live a holy life before God and man.as far as one post said "what will we do if we lose our pastor and he cant dictate the way we live". well brother, if you have a good pastor teaching you and leading you , when you are alone you will do the same. if they dont teach us and lead us, we wont know what to do and will believe a lie.it is Bible that it is mandatory at this time to have a pastor.i have sat in a church where the pastor only mentions the lost and never tells anyone how to stay saved. it takes it all.Pastor please preach to me! it takes holiness to be saved.when you mention sin as a particular "thing",people get defensive about it,because they want to do it.the men that went to tulsa are not changing,theres nothing different. thats what people need to see. they are preaching exactly the same way they always have.the UPCI is leaving them.

If you're not part of the solution or part of the problem STAY OUT OF IT!!!
And this thread is definitely not part of the solution. All it's doing is making people more bitter and confused.

I PRAY THAT NO "UNSAVED" PERSON SEES THIS THREAD.

And to think I was looking for sermons by a preacher named on here.

Now I have to go repent for reading gossip.

go to armswide.googlepages.com for preaching links
and send me any that you have

There is a scripture that I love 11Chro 7:14, and it starts out IF, my people which are called by my Name.....that is a conditional word.. the Lord left it to us to pray, prayer is a channel between God and Man..we as Christlike saints should walk and talk something the world sees differently a set apart people...in the old paths we should walk not taking up the world in our churches...where is the great revivals God promised to us? Revial doesn't come easy it is work hard work...but, we are very easy in Zion, these last days, it is time to move God, send forth the intercessors, prayer warriors, weepers and travailers. then we will know the direction and the will of God in all things..put away the childish things and take hold of the horns of the altar...God is waiting, for a people that still walks in the old paths...God Bless

I am a 2nd Generation Pentecostal. I used to go to the Rock Church. I know Pastor Young and Bishop Wilson maybe not as well as some, but I still have sat under their leadership. While I don’t understand the spilt all to well, I know that there is Revival there in that church and that they do preach Holiness and practice it as well. Because of other problems and God leading us in a different direction my wife and I now go to Calvary Evangelism Center which is a UPC church and preaches the same message and maintains the same Holiness. I believe that God will pour out His spirit to anyone that wants it. Now I have also experienced the people in the UPC who as some might say are stuck up all over themselves, but you know what….They are not God and they will answer to God Himself. I can tell you this that last Sunday night in our church there was an out pouring of the Holy Ghost and I can say this Revival is here. There is no time to argue and point fingers. The Bible says “The Fields are white and ready for harvest” so no matter what organization you’re from I think the questions should be are we ready to do the Will of God in our lives. God Bless you all and there is this saying that I have heard all my life. “Just Keep Keeping On”. My name is Doug Brown and I’m 23 and I hope to see you all in heaven.

WOW! If I ws a sinner looking into joining a church. All this mess would send me running. It appears that we have lost the purpose of why we are here in the first place. "SOULS" If you have something to say keep it away from others and pray about it. It's a sad day when we fight over who want's TV or not rather than how many lost souls are dying. WAKE UP! God is not pleased with this mess and if you don't get it your the one that needs prayer. Enough is Enough!

I've been in UPC for over 3-dacades and have seen the power of God demonstrated many, many times! The power of the Holy Ghost is real and changes lives!
I find this whole split issue very disheartening considering we are living in the last days and as such we are trying to evangelize our world! TV is nothing more than a tool and as other bloggers have posted TV as we know it today is becoming obsolete (the internet is far more devastating than TV in its prime) "IT ALL COMES DOWN TO INTEGRITY"
There have been differing viewpoints in the UPC (largely contrasting I might add) ever since its inception.
TV was an issue in the 50's (at which time our forefathers knew very little about it so their stance was primarily a safeguard) now 50+ years later we are fighting over change! (Evolution)
I will not belabor the point (I could name many issues that, I differ in opinion with) however it’s the fundamentals that I believe in therefore my opinions become my personal beliefs!! On the same token: WHY THE SPLIT?? Why Washington politics in God’s Kingdom?? I believe and know personally that there are POWERFUL men of God on both sides of the issue(s). You brethren have agreed to disagree on varying viewpoints for many years now! Why in the last of the last days do we chose to flex our spiritual muscles…..It’s all about unity!! Wake up brethren, wake up…..

sorry spell check missed "dacades" should have been "decades"

I was privileged after my original posting (RockNaHardplace) to acquire a copy of a Ministers' Forum from the very first Because of the Times in Alexandria, LA, where the TV issue was brought up to the former General Superintendant, the late Bro. N.A. Urshan. He spoke so politely and gracious in his response to the brother that asked about TV advertising.

I find that his response, now some 25 years ago, reflects the opinion of the WPF on the television matter, and not that of the UPCI any more...so who really left the organization gentlemen? Did the WPF leave...or did the UPCI leave?

It has been stated here many times that UNITY is the issue at stake, not TV or ADVERTISING, gentlemen. I'm here to tell you that Unity was the TEST God was giving this movement from the very beginning. He will not pour a revival of any measure on a group of men and women that will not stay united!

I'll be blunt and say that God isn't telling one to go and another to stay. God isn't telling one man to throw something out and another to take something on. God IS testing the ministry to see if you will hear the voice of the Spirit and stop following flesh and allegiance to man. He that has an ear, let him hear.

I challenge Bro. Haney and Bro. Godair to come together and restore UNITY and heal the rift THEY have allowed as leaders. You men have taught us for years that everything rises and falls on leadership. If you do not follow the call of the Spirit now to UNIFY, God will bring the stripping winds of the Holy Ghost across the Pentecostal movement and sift us as wheat if we do not listen. He still knows how to get a man's attention the last time I checked personal experience. In my case, he wasn't nice about it. I lost everything I have in this life to get me where God wanted me.

God has given to this church the ministry of reconciliation. It is something we as a movement have not made use of much in our history, either with fallen ministers, churches or as a body.

The scriptures posted here earlier about division were right on the mark. I was told recently by a minister that God was "ridding the UPC of a cancer." He got this on word from another minister, one whose words have helped me in the past. However, we've rid ourselves of nothing, my brethren...except good common sense. The cancer merely spread to both bodies!

Yes, I attend a UPC church, but I stand firmly in teaching our people to learn to make HOLY GHOST-based decisions in their homes, lives and walks with God, not just adherence to a list of man-made rules and regulation.

Proverbs 18 tells us this:

[16] A man's gift maketh room for him, and bringeth him before great men.
[17] He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.
[18] The lot causeth contentions to cease, and parteth between the mighty.
[19] A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle.
[20] A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; and with the increase of his lips shall he be filled.
[21] Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

God is calling you to restore. You that are spiritual, restore. I am a former backslider, gentlemen. I was out of this movement for 10 years. During that time I did not run from the Pentecostals. They did avoid me like the plague and it took me a few years after God brought be back to understand why. They did not believe in Apostolic restoration.

We do not have an anointing of restoration on us as a whole, but God wants to pour it on us. We've had it in small pockets here and there, yes, but as a movement, we do not. God is calling this movement, the Apostolic movement to restoration and unity.

The leadership of the UPCI, WPF, ALJC and PAW have the capability to become the links that pulls it all together for an end time revival. Do not miss the hour of your visitation. This is the last generation.

Let me say this. The UPCI and PAW missed it years ago in dividing the movement along racial lines. If we had stayed unified and resisted the pressures of outside sources and the world, God would have made this Apostolic movement the poster child for racial harmony, multi-culturalism and unity in the eyes of the entire world. This nations social services and civil rights organizations now "triumphing" multi-cultural unity would have been coming to the Pentecostals to see how we did it and how to live and love in harmony! Here a generation later, we still have not learned our lesson, and there is one thing I know...you keep retaking the test until you pass it. There is no washroom outside the gates of heaven to get things right before we get there. It's time to settle issues.

I challenge you again, gentlemen. Do not miss the mark this time. We don't have another 50-75 years to fix it this go-around!

If we do not hear Him now, God will get our attention by way of correction.

Beloved bloggers,
Just to make myself real clear! I fully support Bro. Haney and his decision to move forward on the TV issue...we can continue to live under a rock or wake up and smell the coffee! "TIMES HAVE CHANGED" if you don’t believe in change “TECHNOLOGY” then please rid yourself of the automobile and revert back to the horse and buggy!! (I know that sounds cliché’) but its true…I could put together a laundry list of changes ALL of us have embraced in our lives even as recent as 5-10 years ago.

Here is a reality check, I was raised in Pentecost from the age of 6-years old; I am one of 2-3 in my youth group that never backslid….I had a love for God that wasn’t swayed by my piers (very uncommon) I have a brother who is a UPC minister and a sister who is a UPC ministers wife, and I myself am a church leader, my wife and three teenage children all serve God….we come from an ultra conservative home church of which our pastor (a very well known name in Pentecost) passed from this life several years ago, we now attend a church that some would classify as liberal; however we are very happy with the progression in our lives and have no issues with converting from conservative to what some would call liberal, in fact contrary to my upbringing it’s a lot easier to discipline your kids cause you can take things away from them rather than be beat them or make them stand in a corner because there was nothing to take away….(and that’s a very true statement) My kids are great and very active in their youth group and that’s being accomplished without a prison camp…..

My closing remarks,
I marvel at the fact that we Pentecostals for as long as I can remember have criticized the Trinitarians for taking away from the word of God to support their theological viewpoints and yet we undoubtedly add to the word to support ours and yet Revelation 22:18 says…For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. So where’s the justification for us dictating anything other than what’s accounted for in Gods’ word?? Maybe we should get some pointers from Barack and Hillary cause when it’s all said and done they will be united for the general election.....

I pastor a UPC church in Ohio, the state that presented the resolution on TV advertisement. However, since I do not involve "politics" from the pulpit, the church I pastor does not even know of a "split", or of the resolution. We focus on outreach any way that we can reach. Our theme for this year is REACH. We do not use TV for advertisement, but we do broadcast on the internet. However, I would guess that most of the new converts in our church would be shocked to learn that the organization would try to limit the way that a church would reach out. But the new converts are ex-alcoholics, ex-drug users, ex-fornicators, etc., not raised-in-the-church apostolics that are carrying other baggage around. They are happy that someone did reach them, and that is what we want to continue to focus on. Most of them would probably not even be able to tell you what the letters UPC mean. But they can tell you how we must change our life around through repentance, how we must be baptized in Jesus' name, and how we must receive and then live by the Spirit of God. We (Apostolics and every other denomination) have known for years that pastor's kids grow up hating the ministry when we air the church's problems at the dinner table, so what makes us think that airing problems over the pulpit will impress our followers??? Preach Jesus and Him crucified... preach holiness, faith, miracles, healings, revival, outreach, baptism, etc. This is what turned the world upset down in Acts, and it is what will shake our world today.
Pastor Eric Smith - Champions In Christ, Dublin, Ohio
pastor@ChurchOfChampions.org

So, in the last two months my pastor and a visiting minister preached about two professional sports players. They were held up as great examples of determination. Prior to this another preacher used, of all things, a movie called "The Bad News Bears" as the subject of his message. He called it "A cute movie"

I am sorry but I came into UPC almost 30 years ago and the church is nothing like it was then.

Pitiful is my observation.

I have read with interest both sides of the discussion. someone made the statement that the issue was about advertising on t.v., not about having one in the home. My question is this: if someone sees your church ad on t.v., how can you tell them they cannot have a t.v. if they come to church and pray through? I don't see how you can. My church left the UPC before the issue was voted on because we saw what was coming.The UPC has been headed the opposite direction from the way we wanted to go for quite some time. Thank god for people like Bro. Godair, Bro. Booker, and others who are not afraid to go against the flow and stand for holiness and truth.Preachers are supposed to be the watchmen on the wall. If they don't have the guts to stand against danger and sound the alarm, they need to get off the wall.

Spoken, like a true caveman! you'll note my comment previously about living under a rock....You made some pretty bold and judgemental comments, I hope you have scriptural back-up for what you've spoken so boldly!! So when you give an account for your actions you'll be on the right side of the white throne judgement!
I pray for all of the pharisees and sadducees of our day and age!!

In response to open minded, I do have a few scriptures in mind. A good scripture against t.v. is Deuteronomy 7:26 "Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing." As for preachers sounding the alarm against sin, Isaih 58:1 "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins." I know new converts have to learn like the rest of us did, but if someone has had the Holy Ghost for months and is still living in sin, someone is not doing their job.

Dear gsw....
I'm very familiar with the scriptures you've posted; I'm more concerned with the interpretation thereof! You made some pretty bold statements in regards to the UPC brethren and their stance as watchmen on the wall! I’ll not belabor the point because I'm not interested in a non-productive debate; however I could indeed counter your scriptural references, I have a feeling it would be a waste of my time! But for the sake of scripture I’d suggest you apply the scriptures below to your life!!1 Chronicles 16:22 and Psalms 105:15 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm. In God’s love…openminded

Dear open minded,
I agree 100% with the scriptures you gave. I don't tend to disagree with the fact that we should not do them harm by word or deed. however, the Bible does tell us that we should rebuke and admonish a brother when we see them in error.Most of these brothers have been taught better than the road they are going down. The Bible tells us in Proverbs that we should not remove the old landmarks that our forefathers put in place. it seems everyone wants to be saved but nobody wants to be saved from anything. We want to be blessed in our mess and have Gods blessings without sacrifice. I see the road the UPC is taking and i wonder where it will end. When Jesus returns for his church will he even be able to recognize us? I for one would rather go overboard on my standards than face God and find out I wasn't strong enough.

Amen Bro.GSW

I have a question!! Can a WPF church or council member still be affiliated with the UPC camp meetings and such??

That is a good question. From what I understand the WPF does not prohibit your being a member of another organisation and fellowshipping with them, but I heard that the UPC said no. Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong. that is just what I heard.

I know of pastors that are WPF who preach that the UPC is going to "pot" but they still went to camp meetings. Make sense? Think not.

It doesn't make any sense to me. My church stopped going to the UPC campmeetings and youth camps while we were still affiliated with the UPC.
Another thing that doesn't make sense is the people who always grumble and complain about the UPC going downhill, yet they refuse to get out. If I am a part of any group, you won't hear me running them down.

Dear Fellow "Christians"
I was nothing until Jesus rescued me...at that time I became Christian ~ even before I was called a Pentecostal or an Apostolic (Minister). God brought me into the care of O.C. Crabtree who taught me the Word, S.R. Hanby who taught me true humility and passion for God (I was behind the video camera when he preached to the city of Schenectady the message "Prepare to meet your God", David Walters who taught me the value of Holiness, and Richard Elrod's...Tender heart thick skinned. I learned of the Character and Nature of the LORD thru these men of God. I believe it says "God is Love". Without going into detail of standing for righteousness of which there can be no questioning. May I ask a question to all the Honest and sincere Christian Ministers and Leaders. Where is God's love and righteousness in all that has happened? Why have some responded in backbiting, murmuring and character asassination and an attempt to breed fear? I don't agree when the politics and filty lucre are used to make policy. Why are not ministers whom God has called into ministry yet does not derive their living from the 'Ministry' (not have a vote or say in policy making)?. Has it ever been given a thought how those ministers are made to feel or even valued?... like they do not belong so why should they stay? They pay the dues yet they have no say about the passage of those policy dues or what has been deemed "tithes". According to the 'rules' of having a vote....would the Apostle Paul have a say or vote in our Organization today? He did not derive his living from the ministry but the occupation of tent maker. What would Paul say today of a Tragedy in a Pastors family... his Assistant (not licensed) undermined his Ministerial Authority creating a hostile enviroment and receive tithing from people, the pastor decided to leave without splitting the Church and damaging the 'Sheep'. Then when that Hostile Assist. went for UPC License it was granted? tell me where was righteous judgment in that? And when an attempt to contact the District Supt...The Pastor was ignored and forgotten (Where was brotherly love when the pastor needed it? That's enough to make a change in Fellowships but never from being a Christian. I have heard too much about the TV advertising issue and have witnessed too little of what we Christians, Apostolics, Pentecotals are supposed to illuminate to a lost and dying world. We cannot say that those who leave UPC Int'l to be part of another Oneness Fellowship and visa versa are on their way to hell or damnation. The word say "Judge not another mans servant" "There is One Judge and Lawgiver"...Eternity will only tell us who is a good and faithful servant
..Remember what Jesus said of remembering mercy and justice. Don't attempt to breed fear into those who hold the truth in righteousness. Before we attempt to pull the splinter out of our Brothers' eyes we must pull the beam out of our own eye. Because we disagee does not give us license to be bitter toward another...before you call yourself a Pentecostal or Apostolic or UPC or WPF or PAW or ALJC...CAN YOU CALL YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN?

I have posted here before and agaiin am reading all the comments. I have a few questions. Is God UPCI or WWPF? Does HE CARE? Or does he care that "The fields are WHITE AND READY FOR HARVEST"? There is so much going on in this world and now is not the time to get distracted because at this very moment that I am posting somebody is going to die that never knew the truth. For now is our Salvation nearer than when we first believed. Have we gone so far in our spiritual walk that we have forgot about the Great Commission? Have we got so far involved with "Playing Church" that we have forgot about the people there? Isn't the House of God a refuge that we can run to and be saved. The church and I mean THE CHURCH (Every single Fellowship that is Jesus Name, 1 God, Baptized in Jesus Name, Holy Ghost, Tongue Talking, and you get my point) was not a place for anything else than church. All the politics need to stop and we need to focus on what God has called us to do. I want to say this one thing. If you have a conviction over a certain standard do you need to split off or just keep preaching what you have always preached? And if your church is allowing things that your pastor preached against and you've preached against and people decide that they would rather keep start their own orginization and keep their standards, but are still preaching the same message than what is all this going back and forth about? It's still the same message. Anyway I pray that God will continue to work in everyones heart and continue the Revival that we see. God Bless Doug Brown

Well, I posted against television and blending with the world before. I have read all the counter arguments. Even the one that calls technology "evolution" (does anyone get the irony there). In the end, I don't care who approves, condones or looks the other way. It is wrong. A true church advertising on television is the biblical equivalent to Elijah asking Jezebel to wear a placard with his order of services. Since when did God get so weak that He needs to use an instrument of sin to reach a soul? Perhaps we could market Pentecostal beer to reach the racing fans? The arguments for television, worldliness et al, are transparent. At least be honest, you don't want to submit the flesh. You want the world. Blur the lines, "evolve". Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. (that's in the Bible)I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me. (that's David, a man after God's own heart) Wake up and smell the compromise. Where is your heart at? Tell you what, if you want to be seen by the world, put a tent in the shopping center parking lot. Give them the real thing, I'll join you.

To the latest Anonymous blog, I find the Irony of your mindset quite intriguing; I had a feeling that someone would pounce on the opportunity to represent the word “Evolution” in a Darwin’s theory context and whalaa…. (If “evolution” is offensive please insert: transformation, change, process, progress or any other word that may appeal to your intellect!!) your reference to”I will set no evil thing before mine eyes” do you use the internet? And do you understand the context of what David was inferring in that passage? Here is irony and the “True Church” as you put things! I happen to know a couple of the primary leaders of the pack that helped organize WPF, one minister in particular; I will mention would not allow TV in any fashion at home or otherwise yet he and his children (avid sports fans) would go to pizza parlors or sports restaurants to watch their favorite team and have been doing this for many, many years (Irony?) and more recently a few brethren were at a wedding gathering with which there were folks from both sides of the fence WPF /UPCI and it was quite interesting that brethren from WPF were laughing and reflecting on movie clips they were watching on YouTube throughout the event (Irony?) So is the sin how long you watch the movie? If you watch it in clips it’s ok? Lastly: I know personally ministers that oppose TV will go to their motel room when traveling and watch TV, and they are glued to it! (Irony?) Hey; I have a suggestion let’s do a new word study on Hypocrisy, Sadducees and Pharisees and determine who fits what description?? As previously mentioned: if you can rid yourself of the internet then you’re a real trooper and as Jesus said to those looking to stone the woman caught in adultery you would qualify to cast the first stone!! P.s. The INTERNET is 100 times more evil than TV!! In fact, how many ministers have we lost to pornography? INTERNET, INTERNET, INTERNET!!) ?????

Ok. I have a question. I would like those that post that TV is evil to explain with out putting the scripture that says,” Put no Evil Thing" because I how is all TV evil? I mean the Internet has more porn and disgusting things than you could ever get on TV for free? I know that there are things that are bad on there and you have to make sure that whatever you see is clean the same way you have to watch which sights you are on the internet. Now I do not have a TV and my family does not watch movies, but I am still confused on the way people are so mad at the situation of advertising on TV. And another thing is that the churches that could afford the expense are very few and far between. And there are churches that will make a little biblical adventure and make it into a little show and post it on their website. Isn't that the same thing? Anyway I would like to hear both sides. God Bless Doug Brown

I guess yall are still at it on this site.. pahleassseee.....

This is all such a bummer! I received the Holy Ghost in a UPC church and lived for God under a wonderful, straight shootin pastor. He loved truth and holiness. Praise God! THen I moved and the UPC church in the area was one loose goose....tv, slits up to the high heavens, etc. Thank God I found a nearby church with safe standards. My pastor recently joined the WPF Thank you Jesus. I like a high fence...it keeps my family safe. I dont see in the bible anywhere that it pleases God to rip up other born again believers, just because of the "letters" of your organization. UPCI WPF. Acts 2:38 is how it started and reaching the lost is what are focus should be upon.

This whole thing is ridiculous!
you people are rippin' up on my elders. And you're reason for doing this is what? because they care about their saints souls enough to switch to a organization that doesn't allow televisions? are you insane?
I applaud my pastor for switching to WPF. Thank you Jesus! I am sooo glad he did it.
Television is a big enough temptation for me as it is.
and I dont own one of coarse but I'm just saying, If my pastor allowed it I could kiss my prayer life goodbye.
Thats just me being honest,
so now UPC is allowing television, can we look for UPC endorsed cigarettes too?
now you're saying absolutely not
but thats what you said about television 10 years ago.
Just wait until some backslid liberal says "But, think of the smokers and we could reach."
once you compromise, its nothing to do it again.

-a sickened apostolic young man.

To a sickened apostolic young man. I just want to say what I would tell anyone. Are you sure of your facts? I went to a WPF church that was huge and now I'm going to a UPC church. The UPCI church is not allowing TV's I go to a church where my pastor is a Presbyter and that was my main concern when I came from my other church. Your statement is wrong. Find the facts. And to anyone who is bashing the Elders of the UPCI or WFP stop because no matter which they are God's Chosen and I can recall a story in the Bible about a Bear eating up some young men who were having their say about the man of God. In my eyes there is no UPCI or WFP there is just God and the Bible. You have to live your life according to God's Word.

That was my post on Wed Jul 02, 12:44:00 PM 2008. I want to point something out and keep the facts straight. I don't belong to either organization (neither does my church). I don't know your "elders" so I can't comment on them. I was a sinner until a couple of years ago, I haven't been privy to politics. 1 Corinthinans 2:2 "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." I guess that sums up my position and who I stand with. I really don't understand after coming from the "other side of the fence" why you would want to participate with something that has such a long-standing history of the most vile ungodliness. I just ask someone to consider. Most of you have made up your mind already, but there may be that one ... My/your salvation isn't dependent on what someone else watches or participates in. I had lost everything to sin when the Lord found me. As I go forward I'm watching many of you returning in the south-bound lane. I came out of what you are going into. I don't watch T.V. on vacation, in the hotel, restaurant, or families homes. I won't subscribe or spend much time in most printed material (periodicals and publications advertising sex and sin) Sorry, you cannot find me in hyporisy. Not a pharisee, quite the opposite, I tend to spend quite a bit of time with sinners, face to face, and they usually like me. I am extremely selective on the internet. I have filters and only one computer in a central room of my home. My children are welcome to sit with me while I'm on-line. I sit with them when they are. AND YET, I am still troubled about what comes through. You really ought to pray awhile before you log on. There is temption, true enough. Maybe I will pursue that and get rid of the thing. God will bless me. I doubt you'll see blessings ahead with T.V. unless yielding yourself to the pleasures of sin for a season sounds pleasant to you. I could say alot more and I have some honest thoughts but I'm going to end here. Just remember, I am an expert on what you are about to see. I lived with hell in control for most of my lifetime. I don't have to be a prophet to see your future. Try to have some strength and trust the Lord for a moment. IF you can be honest, He will show you. You better ask now though.

I dont care if you agree with the UPCI or WPF, do not bash either men in either organizations.

HOW SAD THAT THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE REDUCED OURSELVES TO, THE REAL ? IS WOULD JESUS RECOGNIZE OUR CHURCHES WHEN HE RETURNS? WILL HE BE PLEASED WITH WHAT HE SEES? OR WILL HE SAY, DEPART.. YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE VERSE? SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT . HMMMMMM

Reading some of the comments on here has been truly a treat, NOT!

This whole split has caused a mess with California alone. Knowing the leaders of WWPF real well was not the intial intention of these guys. Now on the other hand, knowing them well and hearing them make comments over the pulput about certaim people was not a lie. What's interesting is the bandwagoner's that are trying to jump on board and cause so much trouble. I can think of at least three that a Pastor would not allow behind his pulput, but now because they are part of this WWPF, they have been to his church for two long revivals. There is truth to some of the stuff being said. Take it from someone who was pastored by these men. Oh well, back to AFF and all the juicies over yonder with St Mark.

You seem to know so much why are you being anonymous? just come out with it, reveal yourself???????????

Do not say anything bad about Bishop Nathaniel Wilson or Pastor Myles Young. It is obvious that you are not a member of their church. How little you understand about the great character traits of these men and the love that they have for the souls of their saints. Keep your tongue OFF my pastors. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We must be careful of worldly arrogance more than TV. Time must be spent in the prayer closet not in the open forum of contention. a scripture of great blessing to me is Galatians 6:1-10. I have personally experienced being distracted by organizational politics & sin, after 20 years God was Kind and brought me back in the name of Jesus. It is sad to me to see the UPCI still being distracted by all these red herrings. I have known Kenneth Haney, Vaughn Morton, & Nate Wilson for almost 40 years and found them all to be true servants of the Lord. But perhaps because they are related this caused familiarity and friction. Unity is strength & it has been said "more would be done - if GOD got the credit"

To the Person with so much anger from the Rock Church...The person you are reffering to never even mentioned Bro. Wilson or Bro. Young. It seems only you did. I also went to the Rock and know that your Pastors are great men of God, but I do not attend any longer because of people like yourself who are so quick to be rude and over spoken and can't even leave your name.

Just a thought.. We all need to remember that bitterness and gossip are both sins and we need to keep it under control. I don't believe it really matters which organization you are apart of as long as you Love God, living and are following the teachings of the Bible as we always have. There is no need for strife between anyone.

To the responder that says I have anger. You are humbly wrong. The Bible says to leave the men of God alone. The Haney letter did not mention Pastor Wilson or Young. However, the anonymous person who listed reasons to avoid Pastors Wilson and Young certainly did. It is funny that you ARE also anonymous and yet complain about others. Not surprising. I did list my name on the comment form. When did you attend the Rock Church? You must not have been there very long.

To the former Rock church person. I humbly submit that the only reason you left is because you wanted to do so. Do not blame other saints for that decision. God often tests us to see if we will leave the boat in a storm. If I have offended you in any way, I do humbly ask for forgiveness. I know you never talked to me, I am an old timer and I almost never talk to anyone.

heres an old song worth singing, uh..hum.. TURN YOUR EYES UPON JESUS AND LOOK FULL IN HIS WONDERFUL FACE AND THE THINGS OF EARTH WILL GROW STRANGELY DIM IN THE LIGHT OF HIS GLORY AND GRACE..AND HOW ABOUT THIS ONE.. WONT WE HAVE A TIME WHEN WE GET OVER YONDER, WONT WE HAVE A TIME WHEN WE GET OVER YONDER..

Is this ever gonna end?????

You guys are too funny.Jesus wants you to praise him and worship him only.T.V. or not we are to reach the lost.And there are a lot of lost people that watch T.V.So be big boy,s and get over it.When was the last time you invited someone to church .

I think many of you need to take a few more lessons on grammar, spelling, punctuation, and sentence structure.

You must be the English teacher that I heard about.God does not grade us on spelling.When was the last time you invited someone to church?

evangelist o. brian lambright
i'm the son of a upci pastor who is now deceased. when i was young my dad was a strong man & kept our house clean. i was corrected multiple times for sneaking to my grandfather's to watch television (when aunt bee looked more apostolic than 80+% of pentecostal women today). as he grew older, i guess he just sort-of flowed along with mainstream decisions of others, deciding not to "rock the boat". when my dad was on his deathbed he called my brother to him, he couldn't hardly speak, he drew an x tv; he said faintly, it's the gates of hell
i don't believe television is the only way to hell, but does it fall into categories of the lust of the flesh, or the lust of the eyes, or the pride of life? reread romans 1 with special interest to 'not only they that do these things but they who take pleasure in them that do them.'
churches are filling with ungodliness because of the love of the world. WHAT WILL DRAW US CLOSER TO GOD? DOES THAT EVEN MATTER ANY MORE?
tv, internet's filth & simply 2008's lifestyles are pulling us away. we must draw closer; regardless of what side you're on.
i hope it's the Lord's!

people ... come on aready!!!!

Have you invited anyone to church today.Why split over a vote.Are you guys out of it or what?Jesus would have a hard time going to your church.O look he,s not dressed right.Maybe if you get over your man made rules you have more people at church.You leave the people alone and love them teach about Jesus and let God do the rest.You need to stop the pentecostal put down,s from the preachers you guy brag about your selfs and your family,s more than you teach about Jesus.I go to a united pentecostal church because you teach about the oneness of God and acts 2:38 .But what I here a lot of is about how great your wife is or little Joey or little Sally how great they are.Come on lets get back to to telling people about the Greatness of Jesus and how to be saved.Back to Acts 2:38.If your on the internet your all ready using the T.V.they just changed the letters to P.C Have a good Day.

WILL YOU FOLLOW JESUS CHRIST?

JUST BECAUSE INTERNET HAS DRAWN PEOPLE AWAY FROM DOING RIGHT(PORN)DOES NOT-!-MAKE TV OKAY!!! TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT!!ALSO, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ADVERTIZING ON T.V. & BILLBOARDS IS THAT T.V. IS FROM HOLLYWOOD!!HOLLYWOOD DOES NOT BELONG IN THE TRUE CHURCH.WHY WERE SOME THINGS WRONG AT ONE TIME & NOW SUDDENLY THEY ARE RIGHT? WHAT NEXT? LET ME SAY THAT WE USED TO BE KNOWN FOR TAKING A STRONG STANCE AGAINST T.V. I FEAR THAT IS NO LONGER THE CASE.I WONDER IF THE DEVIL IS LAUGHING.WHAT COMMUNION HATH LIGHT WITH DARKNESS? JUST BECAUSE OTHER HAVE COMPROMISED DOES NOT MEAN WE ALL HAVE TO.THANK GOD FOR THOSE WHO STILL HAVE THE BACKBONE TO STAND UP FOR SEPARATION FROM THE WORLD.

FELLOW APOSTOLICS: THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN USING ADS ON T.V. & BILLBOARDS IS T.V. IS FROM HOLLYWOOD!WHAT COMMUNION HATH LIGHT WITH DARKNESS? I AM ONLY 31 & I WONDER WHY IS IT THAT SOME THINGS THAT USED TO BE WRONG ARE NOW SUDDENLY A-OK? WE USED TO BE KNOWN FOR BEING STRONGLY AGAINST T.V., I FEAR THAT IS NO LONGER THE CASE. WHAT HAPPENED TO SEPARATION FROM THE WORLD? CALL ME JUDGEMENTAL IF YOU WANT BUT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DIFFERENT FROM THE WORLD. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE TO BE U.P.C. TO GO TO HEAVEN. NOR DO I BELIEVE YOU HAVE TO BE W.P.F. TO GO TO HEAVEN. JUST BE RIGHT W/GOD!

Now that advertising on t.v. is "o.k.", what next? Putting ads in filthy magazines? Think of all the porn addicts we could reach!The world is looking for something real & different.Also, I do not dress modest to please others, however, I believe if I suddenly started wearing mile-high slits or mini-skirts that people in the community would be disappointed.Your outside reflects your inside.

What about you? Will you be ready when Jesus comes back.We are getting closer every day.Pray for the country; we are in deep when they elect a person who will not stand up for the unborn.I have yet to see upci put on a T.V ad.Let,s stand up and say enough is enough and let the world hear, that aborting babies is wrong.We voted T.V.ads in let,s use it.

Wow I am shocked. I thought pentecostals are about soul winning?!?! So what if the churches split they did what they believed was right! Move on, there are souls that need to be saved while u people r sitting here talking trash about bro.Wilson and the wwpf. Grow up! You guys call yourselfs christians?!?!?! Yea right! I hope one day you realize that some of you that are talking bad about pastors were in the wrong! Those men did nothing to you. You dont know their stories you have no room to talk. To the guy that was talking bout bro. Wilson and his "mcmansions" do you know their story? No! Im surpized they dont have a castle! they sure do deserve it! You go Tell what you have bad to say in their faces! shame on you! then you go teaching your kids not to talk bad about people and not to gossip. Take a look at yourselfs! Im 16 and i think this is ridiculous. If you dnt like ur preacher being talked about stop talking about other MEN OF GOD! shame on all u who are trash talking preachers.

The problem that is presented here with Bro. Haneys letter is 2 fold. Firstly, it almost stigmatizes any other Apostolic fellowship as "not" being in the body of Christ. The insinuation that the U.P.C. is "the body of Chrsit" I believe is a mistake on our part. I went to the the Tulsa meeting and can tell you without hesitation that it was firsat class, anointed and respectful towards the U.P.C.

Have you ever seen a disgruntled member leave the church and go across town and run there mouth against their previous church? In such cases the previous Pastor may have to say something (if anything) to protect and notify the church. However, where there are personal attacks and slandering, it only pales the integrity of the original church. In my experiences, its better to say nothing "and let the Lord fight our battles."

With the extreme amount of information that has involved the laity to become a sounding board against the WPF, its obvious that the UPC is acting like the Pastor and Church, that have lost members to the church "across town" and are attempting to tarnish the view before a "trend to leave' develops. This is sadly immature and embarissingly obvious to anyone in Pastoral leadership.

The assertion the UPC is strong as a holiness and revival movement is somewhat delusional. This movement has lost standards of separation across this fellowship faster than the Assemblies of God did in the 1960's. Thiers was a gradual sweeping as the 'innocence" of T.V. and movies prevailed. Ours has happened in less than 10 years.

My predicition is that the WPF will grow stronger because of the obviousness of this eroision. people want to save their kids...for me, this is what is really all about. Thank you.

IF MY PEOPLE WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME WILL HUMBLE THEIRSELVES AND PRAY AND TURN FROM THEIR WICKED WAYS THEN... I WILL HEAL THEIR LAND..

Is all of this really necessary? I am in a UPC church and have been all my life, but just because a group of people split off and start another Org doesn't mean that they are horrible people. Shouldnt't we be praying for our Brothers and Sisters instead of gossiping about them? As for the post by a sickened young man, I am sorry to say but that post is ignorant as the facts on the Proposition, as far as I am aware of, are wrong. From what I understand the Proposition made it so that the UPC can now ADVERTISE on the TV, not that it is now allowed in the home. Now in my opinion I am totally for advertising and televising sermons. My grandma watches or listens to TBN and all those other similar channels all day. I would rather have her watching/listening to something that is biblical than watching/listening to someone that is teaching the "Healing Arts" on TV. I don't think it is right for people to be condemning towards people that have and watch Television. Just keep in mind that not everyone is convicted about TV.

There are folks who are not convicted about smoking, drinking, gambling, adultery, stealing, lying, etc., etc. Since when does having a conviction become the final determination of sin. Tell grandma to turn the idiot box off and get out to a Holy Ghost filled church and she can get something that a house full of man's evil devices can't hold a candle to. There is no need for God to advertise in the dispicable format that evil men and hell's demons control. Be ye separate ... or does that mean we walk funny? Got the Holy Ghost? Well, demonstrate it! Can you go to Heaven with a television? Maybe you can but I know too much, I can't. Yes, there maybe some good content but I once heard of a man accidentally throwing a $20 bill in a dumpster. It was good money but you'd have to wade through a mountain of filth to get it. That is television. Justification is the first step. How far are you willing to walk? Think you are better than that? Remember Solomon, the wisest man in history. He loved those wives enough to give them their gods. Didn't hurt for a time, he just kept worshiping God. Only he got too close and fell in with them. He backslid while attending church - a little at a time. How wise are you?

I agree with the comment made on 01/03 that you might find something good on T.V., but you would have to go thru filth to get it. Well put! No wonder the old-timers called it hellavision!

My pastor is a UPCI minister and must sign the statement. He has a TV in the home. He talked about (from the pulpit) loading his ipod with entertainment for viewing while in his deer stand hunting. He is one of the better of the three in the area here. My former assistant pastor had a full theater in his basement and he also signed the statement. My former pastor and wife would go over to his house and watch whatever movies were popular. The youth pastor at the church preached about the "Bad News Bears" and called it a "Cute Movie".

Sorry folks. UPCI is so far off their own mark it is an embarassment. I don't even invite people any more. What can I say to them? This is what they say they believe so you will have to ignore what they do?

Maybe they need to advertise on TV so they can reach their own people.

I didn't leave the church, the church left me.

This a copy of a letter I have yet to send to the church members of the church I was recently cast out of. I am in prayer still on whether to mail it out. Please pray with me. Thank God I have made it to a UPC church.

Dear Church Family,

My name is Brother Chris Thompson. I sat on the right side, on the third or fourth row. I thought I would write to you, and share with you the reason I haven’t been to church lately. On the 6th of January, I was told by Donald Tipton to leave. Though I came to the church, and didn’t bother anyone, or cause any trouble, he said unless I could believe exactly what he did, I was to leave. All of this was rooted in a private conversation we had the day before. I gave a Pentecostal/Apostolic bible study on cd, “Acts 2:38 The Ultimate Experience” to a man that wanted to do more than be an idle Christian. I will leave the mans name confidential. On Monday the 5th, I called the man to find out if he was passing out the bible study. He told me that the Pastor had condemned the bible study, and failed to replace it with anything else the man could teach. So the man was left idle once more. A man that desired to reach the lost, whom Christ died for, was hindered. When I talked to Donald Tipton about it in private, he told me that he didn’t believe in video. I told him, I didn’t care what his personal conviction was, either way he looked at it, he stopped the Acts 2:38 message from going forth. If any desire to see the bible study and judge for yourself please correspond with me.
I would also like to touch on some other matters concerning your family members that are not living for God, that you and I both desire to be saved. And I would like to start out by saying this: “Thank God, that the Pentecostals that reach out to me, didn’t come to me preaching standards, otherwise I would have never been saved, and I wouldn’t have never wanted to see another Pentecostal church again.” You and I have both heard that you can’t skin a fish before you catch it. Now somehow, this man Donald Tipton has made his way into that leadership position reproaching the very Holy Ghost that gives all men life. I have seen this man, as have you, preach on women’s hair while there were sinners present in the church who will probably never receive it now due to that, (you can dress people up to be Pentecostal, and if they don’t have the Holy Ghost, they are none of His, Romans 8:9). I am absolutely heart broken when I tell people I am Pentecostal, and they frown on me because someone tried to beat dress standards into them before they receive the Holy Ghost.
Another aspect I would like to cover is the term duress, which actually means by force. I brought about 12 people to church, while I was there, in the 4-month period that I was there. It amazed me that in a conversation with one of them here recently, and as I was telling him that I was no longer going there, this is what he said to me. He said, “ I didn’t want to hurt your feelings about the church when we were going, but I felt like they were trying to force us to come up front and run around and look all crazy.” I couldn’t believe my ears. I want to say this People of God, God is not a God of force, nor does he want us worshiping at the crack of a whip. That is one thing that turned the Lord against King Saul, was that he made the people do things under duress. Also, Saul built alters for sacrifice that he was not told to do. Saul was worshiping the sacrifice rather than the creator. That’s were we get the scripture on obedience being better than sacrifice. Don’t be deceived by this folks.

(1 Sam 15:21 KJV) But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the LORD thy God in Gilgal.
(1 Sam 15:22 KJV) And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

(1 Sam 15:23 KJV) For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

I would like to pose another scripture for you to consider.

(Eccl 5:1 KJV) Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.

Let me know if you come up with any other way to interpret this.

I personally believe that the word worship means a lot more than just merely dancing around. A man or woman that truly worships the Lord, will worship Him in everything that they do, time, money, outreach, spirit, and truth, etc.
It’s a truly sad situation to have suffered what I did with Donald Tipton. I am not praying against him, for he is against himself. I’m praying for him. A man cannot cut off the out stretched arm of the Lord and get away with it. But do not reward this man with absolute authority. Even in the scripture, when angles themselves appear, men of God would attempt to bow to them, and even the angles would stop them. Don’t ever give complete control to a man, because all men are liars.

(Rom 3:4 KJV) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Also, I am all for following a Pastor, but I ask you to do a study dear people, of how many times the word Pastor is in the bible. You will see that it is never linked with authority. Its only linked to example, a leading, not a commanding. 1 Peter 5:2-3

People of God, your families are important. There is hope of them being saved, but don’t let them be conditioned against Pentecost before they ever get the Holy Ghost. There is much more I could write and expound on, but I hope you would get the picture even now. I am willing to teach Outreach Bible studies to any one who would like them. I can say that I have continually brought people to church, and God filled them with the Holy Ghost. I wasn’t preaching a revival. Preachers are preaching to folks that someone else brought. I brought these people, and God filled them. We need to reach this world, and a sure way of seeing your family saved, is to reach someone else’s. The deceivers would like to make you think that anyone who reaches out is going Charismatic, don’t believe these lies. I haven’t worn a short sleeve shirt in 5 years, and I have specific reasons that I do it, and would absolute ask you not to, unless the Lord has instructed you otherwise. This is the truth that has reached people for years. It reached you and me. Remember, did standards being preached to you fill you with the Holy Ghost? I think not. But when the Holy Ghost came, it fulfilled righteous in you without a man having to dress you(Galatians 3). Beware folks, for we will all have to give account of our own souls. I know it is mistakenly believed that a Pastor will be your ransom, and will go to hell for you, if he misleads you. This is a mistaken theology that is almost like going through the Virgin Mary to be saved. The scripture says (Heb 13:17 KJV) Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
This does not say because they must, but it says as they that must. They are supposed to govern you as if they were giving account for you. Now I will say this, they will give account for misleading you, and your blood will be on there hands, but everyman will account for themselves also. If we know its wrong, we are not to follow them. Also incase there is an over interpretation to that scripture above, first I pose this scripture:

(1 Pet 5:2 KJV) Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

(1 Pet 5:3 KJV) Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
We also have to watch for this folks:

(2 Cor 4:5 KJV) For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

Some men are preaching themselves, instead of the words of everlasting life. A man that is preaching you his personal convictions, has missed the mark.

Jesus also said this:

(Luke 22:25 KJV) And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.

(Luke 22:26 KJV) But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

Don’t be taken by the abuse of Pastoral Authority. A humble man people will follow, but a man that is brutish and forceful, men will overthrow.
I want to address some other issues also. This stand against television, and not standing against the internet, Is it right? Folks, I have fixed computers for a number of years now. There are 10 computers that I fixed in your church, that Donald Tipton does not have the knowledge to do. Now I said that to say this, there are things that will pop up over the internet that you can’t stop. Anybody that tell’s you any different is lying. If you need me to demonstrate I will. I don’t care how much security you have, I can make things pop up, and im not the best. There are things that roll across the computer that have never rolled across a television. Now, im not advocating what does come across television because personally, I have no form of cable, satellite, or even the receiving of the local channels. But this is what I’ve heard their dissention from the UPCI was about. They said that they don’t believe in advertising on television. When I confronted Donald Tipton on this matter in private, I asked why he believed in advertising on the sign out front then? Because there is a sign out on I20 that has an almost naked women on it, rolling dice. Our sign might cause them to look up there huh? Also another question about the television advertising; I find it strange that he condemn television advertisement, but he doesn’t preach against going to Wal-Mart? Because I know and you know that on the under clothes isle, there are picture of almost completely naked people. So how can we march down those isles, and take our kids, but the History channel is corrupt? Will you find me stretching the truth to make my belief appear to be Holy? No sir, no maam, not for one second.
Folks this WPF organization that I have considered, in my opinion is just another subtle form of dissention, and its another way to break unity of the people of God that are born of His spirit. A lot of you have loved ones in the UPCI that live balanced lives. Don’t turn against your brethren. I don’t back the WPF, and I don’t believe the Lord will let it go long before they are condemned for reproaching His people. The bible says that if any have not the spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

(Rom 8:9 KJV) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Do your Brothers and Sisters of the UPCI have the Holy Ghost? Folks don’t let this man cause you to speak against your brothers and sisters that have the Holy Ghost. If God gave it to them, and He still does, He approves of them! These dissenters will be condemned for their speaking evil of the brethren.
I can only hope that my letter has accomplished a purpose. I do believe the Lord will confirm this. By the time you get this, He may have already done so. But no man, can cut off God’s out stretched hand and not suffer for it. Be wise precious sheep in Jesus Name.
Lord Bless you, and if any need me, let me know. I love you in Jesus Name.

Sincerely,

Brother Chris Thompson
601- 324-9806
P.O. Box 283
Valley Park, MS 39177

P.S. Folks I cant quite put a finger on it, so I don’t want to claim to know exactly the situation, but I find it strange that the only one interpreting tongues in the church is Donald Tipton. He is awfully fast in intercepting the message? Do any of you find this strange? This was the only church I have ever seen such in.
Also for a peace of mind and to clear up the lies about using TV for ministry, Paul said, Using this World as not abusing it. The world has them folks, if we don’t reach them, false doctrine already is. 1 Cor. 7:31

Thank you for praying me, I have just recieved my answer on whether to mail it to the church.

(Mat 18:15 KJV) Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

(Mat 18:16 KJV) But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

(Mat 18:17 KJV) And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican.

This making critical comments about people needs to stop. If you have a quarrel with someone, go to that person & quit advertising it to everyone. i don't care who it is! I don't think name-calling is appropriate.

Bro. Chris
I know quite a few that would love a bible study buy I hope they don't get one from a fruit cake like you!

I am just soo sad that all this is going on. I wish that we could just have church!!! Millions are going to hell!!! abortions! drug addicts!!! people are getting laid off!!! we need to push the plate and re focus on the Call of God not the politics!!! I am not ashamed to post this!!! Pray for me- assistant Pastors wife.soo sad!!! Families are divided. I just want to leave this world behind and weep before the feet of Jesus!! come quickly Lord!!!

(Psa 26:4 KJV) I have not sat with vain persons, neither will I go in with dissemblers.

(Psa 26:5 KJV) I have hated the congregation of evildoers; and will not sit with the wicked.

(Psa 26:6 KJV) I will wash mine hands in innocency: so will I compass thine altar, O LORD:

(Psa 26:7 KJV) That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works.

If anyone would like to see the Acts 2:38 bible study that Bro. Chris was persecuted over, here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtFF4r9Fygs

Judge it for yourselves, it is awesome

6 of 7 Executive Committee Members, and some General Committee Members of the WPF
Floyd Odom Video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-537804091871170699
Johhny Godair Video(s)
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B42D493D43A9D998
Kenny Godairs church video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQTG4myVNIc
Nathaniel Wilson and The Rock Church (a speaker for and at WPF events, and
maybe even more) Video(s)
http://www.therockchurch.org/video/
http://www.therockchurch.org/video/noLimits08.php
Larry Booker one video out of many(you can go to the other links on the page)
http://apostoliclive.com/play.php?vid=1676
Tommy Craft (T.L. Craft)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1346128654021342182
Barry Sutton
http://www.therockchurch.org/video/noLimits09.php

All of these men are either affliated with the WPF, or they have been advertised
with them. And there are 6 out of the 7 Executive Committee members

Here is one link to their advertisements,
page 16 out of 21
http://worldwidepf.com/downloadable_forms/Together_Summer_08-Web.pdf

Also, on page 11 of 21, they are asking you to buy DVD's. This is in the WPF magazine.

Man I've heard that these guys were being over looked, and not be given any
attention, but they sure were preaching in renown pul-pits? I wonder what the
story really is?

Once I found these I called it quits, but heres a link to the the excutive, and
general committee members
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/archive/index.php/t-10399.html
Just go to google, and type in the name of the preacher and preaching video
like this: Johhny Godair preaching video

Once you find more, please post them in as many places as you can to warn the
UPC members, and ALJC, and our other Apostolic Brother.

Lord Bless in Jesus Name

Warn the UPC, ALJC & other brethren about what???